Vote of no confidence

[Ozcabsmangan]

It's a reet mess

[k979aaa]

Royal Mail believe the cost of sick pay is circa 250 million but their analysis shows that circa 75% of the workforce only ever have up to one absence off per year.

So why are they intending to discriminate against this 75% ?

First week payed second not but I think it is criminal that one f**k tared is on gardening leave while we pick up the s**t show he left us with!

[scotchy1962]

Some strange logic about.

You are angry at the decision to delay the vote because you want to vote No ?

The reason we have delayed the ballot is we want to be sure that the splits in Royal Mail management are at one in being committed to the agreement including 2.5 in resolving revisions, USO and quality issues in offices.

Whereas you don’t seem interested in getting that commitment. Even if a no vote was the decision, any agreement has to ensure the company are committed to the agreement they sign into.

Even if your voting no then you must answer what do you think your going to change in Royal Mail’s business plan which got them signed off as a going concern.

1. Do you really think voting no means Royal Mail are going to continue flying planes to maintain start and finish times ?

2. Do you really think that with the losses in Parcelforce and the opening of the midland hub next month that you are going to no lose further workload from both mail centres and Delivery units.

3. Do you think with a company that just announced £419 million loss with a further loss expected next year that there is anymore money other than a lump sum (if achieved) which does not impact on Royal Mail’s current balance sheet.

4. Do you think believe that the real growth areas are now Sundays and Dedicated parcel routes which the union have insured is voluntary, that Royal Mail are not going to therefore introduce new entrants on inferior terms so they can pick this growth up ?

5. With seasonal variations the choice was SISO linked to payroll and no finishing times or the agreement we reached which stopped all of that.

6. Finally the decision on sick leave was difficult but Royal Mail had written to the union in September stating from the beginning of the financial year they going to introduce the new trigger points. They were going to give the legal 90 notice period of change in contracts for the SSP change.

The ill health retirement is something Royal Mail have wanted to change for sometime and their original proposal was to reduce the up to 34 weeks by the weeks you were off sick.

Royal Mail believe the cost of sick pay is circa 250 million but their analysis shows that circa 75% of the workforce only ever have up to one absence off per year.


So anyone who is voting no and that is your right to do so should answer what of the above do you think will change ? Whilst we have change the impact say from up to 3 hours later to up to 60 minutes we have not in the negotiations or as a result of the strikes made them drop what they promised to the markets and shareholders.

As for those who say we will vote no and then leave the union that is just asking for Royal Mail to come back with far harsher proposals.

Votes of no confidence should be reserved until 1. If there is a yes vote or 2. If there is a no vote and what that results in as maybe if it is you may why the negotiators and the PE who have seen lots of in confidence material believed it was the best that could be achieved and it was not our right to play Russian roulette with our members jobs.

All very good points Martin, but i think you missed the most important one, we dont want to be the ones who bail these bunch of losers out! To expect me to go above and beyond for this management team who somehow have turned a reasonably profitable company with decent returns for investors, into a money losing organisation with no future unless i and my fellow Posties are prepared to "take one for the team" for the better good!
I hate to tell you this Martin but i aint taking one for their team.
Sometimes i think we on the ground floor are the only ones who really see whats happening and we have to look after ourselves. Now the union decide to have a go at RM about revisions, when it hasnt stopped since the ink dried on the same agreement you want me to agree too!!
Catch yourselves on, do you think we were born yesterday, the NO vote was scaring you and you have decided to show a interest to delay the vote even more.
I hate all this posturing and claptrap, trying to bamboozle us with facts and figures, show some mettle, have the vote, if its YES there you go, if its NO get on with it.

[dazzler123]

They dont appear to give a rats ass about quality of service, revisions etc what are you basing your standoff on to make them pay attention any different than before? With all this stop/starting they are cracking on with their objectives full steam ahead

[aiden01]

So where is Ward and his "we will win this dispute hands down", "win the ballot, win the dispute" rhetoric now?

I said at the time that this would do the CWU's cause no good and I was shouted down for it.

Ward's body language when I saw him on the video this week looks like he's had enough and I think we're on countdown to him going.

also promised a no strings inflation busting pay rise

Terry pullinger said it not ward

[guardianangel]

Time to have a choice of union and stop the cwu monopoly,maybe then we will get one that stands up for its members.

Be careful what you wish for. Look at all the different teaching unions and because the all have different agendas they are very ineffective. Schools basically have no union representation in schools and that’s due to having so many different unions.

My wife couldn’t strike as her union didn’t get enough of a turnout for them to strike.

That's the memberships decision no fault of the union.

It’s a much the unions fault as it doesn’t engage with it members but it’s more than happy to take the millions of pounds in subs every year. Teaching unions are just left wing political organisations who have no real interest in its members working lives I know this as when my wife needed Union advice and representation she got absolutely no help.

The CWU has faults and the deal isn’t the best but at least they are there representing us and can actually influence our working lives even though we work for a private company. Majority of schools are publicly funded and the unions could cause absolute chaos for the government and yet they don’t.

That's where i have to disagree i don't think the CWU represent us anymore they are as far left wing as the teachers union,look at their antics in parliament ,they looked like pathetic teenagers, influence our lives they certainly have by making us work longer and harder while diminishing our T and C's there is nothing in that deal that they have gained or won, losing is not a win in my book. They need to be held accountable and we need a choice to change unions if one is not performing,years of the monopoly have made them weak and lackadaisical.

[LouBarlow]

I hate all this posturing and claptrap, trying to bamboozle us with facts and figures, show some mettle, have the vote, if its YES there you go, if its NO get on with it.

This is hilarious. Yes Martin, stop giving us facts as we don’t like the truth round here.

[Linden14]

Martin,ihr rubbish vr rubbish for posties!lots of bits in the agreement that are open to interpretation, sick pay diminished when every union in the land should be fighting to get full sick pay.Workers in this country are going to have no t and c,s left at this rate,so don't keep trying to play this deal off as any sort of win,the only reason this might get voted in is because people are struggling so much financially bless them all.

[Bowiefan]

Citing USO failures and poor QoS as a reason to delay the ballot alarms me. Certainly in my office USO failures and poor QoS has been commonplace since 2020, and I suspect it will be similar nationwide. Trying to call Royal Mail to heel on it now, whilst they gleefully continue their cost cutting agenda means either:

1. The union leadership are utterly oblivious to day to day life for frontline workers.

OR

2. The union knows it is going on, but still endorsed an agreement that plainly wasn't being adhered to before the ink had even dried and the back slapping commenced.

[Valentina@1]

Martin,ihr rubbish vr rubbish for posties!lots of bits in the agreement that are open to interpretation, sick pay diminished when every union in the land should be fighting to get full sick pay.Workers in this country are going to have no t and c,s left at this rate,so don't keep trying to play this deal off as any sort of win,the only reason this might get voted in is because people are struggling so much financially bless them all.

Martin Walsh looking after himself f***ing sell out

[Valentina@1]

Never seen such a turncoat in all my life,it’s disgusting the dross he puts on here scaremongering us,Royal Mail ain’t going bust,they’ve got plenty assets & money,stop this nonsense
Any delivery member that votes yes needs head testing

[postslippete]

It is quite telling that RM have already reneged on the deal that they agreed last month.

The reality is that RM can impose whatever they want, it is up to union whether to accept that. For me, the union have backed down and have tried to browbeat their members into accepting such a poor deal due to their financial position - even though Williams has already given a positive account quite recently to the shareholders. This suggests to me that there could still be "plenty of road" left.

[postslippete]

I would also suggest that the current CWU leadership are not skilled nor particularly adept at negotiations. The evidence of this has been proven for all to see.

It's unfortunate for them that a lot of posties can see straight through this pretentious deal and are prepared to make a stand, unlike them, until now when they see that the tide might turn against them

[LouBarlow]

It is quite telling that RM have already reneged on the deal that they agreed last month.

What deal is this? The one we haven’t even voted on yet? That is what happens without an agreement - change is bulldozed in unopposed, which will happen if an agreement isn’t voted through soon.

[postslippete]

What deal is this? The one we haven’t even voted on yet? That is what happens without an agreement - change is bulldozed in unopposed, which will happen if an agreement isn’t voted through soon.

What I'm concerned with regarding the agreement is this. Let's say your depot has 'provisionally' agreed a later finish time of 15.30 but Royal Mail have agreed with the CWU nationally that last letter delivery time is 16.30. Does that mean at some point in the future RM can push that depot back more easily to 16.30 because that is what the CWU agreed as part of the wider deal?

If the Union didn't agree to any of this it's far harder for RM to try and implement any of it and the same goes for the sick policy. RM can impose what they want, whenever they want regardless of an agreement or not. It's up to the union to either make a stand or become weaker and ineffectual.