National Update

[clashcityrocker]

It would fall under business confidentiality.

Why?
The recent sales at Nine Elms and Mount Pleasant are in the news.

[citypostie]

Four day week is the only thing that keeps everyone going in my office. We do two 5 day weeks [with wednesday then thursday off] and then its two four day weeks making a very long weekend. [friday and saturday off and then monday and tuesday off]
I think other offices should adopt this as although days are longer, we have a decent amount of time off to rest and enjoy life, and if you can work days off theres plenty of extra money there.

That sounds like a good rotation, I thought they was doing away with attendances like that because they say there isn't the work to fill the days when you work 4? They got rid of them at an office near us and argued jobs would have to go to keep them

[norris9]

We watched a WTLL video today on the current dispute. The title of it made out the CWU had some say in it but it was mostly lies, half-truths, and greywash from the Borg......... erm I meant RM. They mentioned something about additional mediation after the current months worth of mediation ends so I think they are trying to drag it out as close to Xmas as they can. They will then hope that we will be less eager to strike & upset ' our customers '.
They also harped on about the poor shareholders who are going to receive less dividends now. Nevermind the fact that the majority of the financial press have always said our profit ratio does not relate to the amounts of dividend paid out. It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul or some kind of Ponzi scheme. They didn't mention the posties who were encouraged to buy RM shares at the supposedly knock down price of 360p only for Rico to crash them down to nearly less than two quid. The guy is a joke and should probably retire.

I am not sure on the future of the company, but RM doesn't seem to be a company I'd have the confidence to invest in if letter numbers seem like they are inevitably going to decline and decline over time.

What are these shareholders dreaming of in the future that they think will make the share price go up a lot?

I assume they think we can become more of a powerhouse in terms of parcel deliveries.

[SpacePhoenix]

There's going to come a time when they split the letters, flats and d2d side off into a separate business. If you take a good look at the letters and flats that you get in the post to your home address, how many of them really need to be delivered the next day or even 2 days later. It's going to come a point where the USO gets reduced for letters and flats, then there might just be say Monday, Wednesday and Friday delivery for flats, letters and d2d with everything else being Mon-Sat and perhaps SDs and Tracked only on a Sunday (but for a premium).

Solystics's packet sorting machine can sort to 1,000 selections in one pass and 10,000 in multi pass, I'd imagine every other manufacturer's packet sorting machine would have similar capabilities. Even for whichever MC has the most walks over all of the DOs it covers, that's enough in theory to sort down to walk level

[rambo1]

Can we have a 4 day working week, please.

For letters and flats that'll probably happen at some point.Don't know if we could see Sunday deliveries of SDs and Tracked (for a premium) eventually

Not sure I could handle this job for 20+ years on a 5 day working week. Need more rest than 1 odd day at a time. Muscles constantly aching. Maybe it's just me.

I think in general the 4 day working week has been mentioned in the media over recent months, so maybe in time it might be something that happens nationwide.

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Yeah but we weren't out till 4pm back then, yes, six days a week but Saturday was done by 11 not 3 or later as it is now. Yes we were in earlier but didn't do 9 hr days.

You must have had a bad round I never saw anything later than 8.30 on a Saturday unless I was doing overtime!

I take it you're joking, as you weren't allowed to deliver before 7am! Is it like a monty python sketch, ' you used to get up at 3am half an hr before you went to bed.......' lol

[rambo1]

Despite all this potentially happening...

1. Surely they are sooner or later going to have machines that can sort all walks into order and that probably will also bundle the post up.

2. Employ owner-drivers.

3. All medium to large parcels end up being delivered by owner-van drivers or Parcel Force.

4. They won't need as much depot space as they do now, therefore will sell off a lot of land.

5. Once bank statements, tickets, payslips, etc.. all go digital....then there will be far less post.


I'd assume this job will be a lot different 10+ years from now. There will likely be no sorting, just part-time hours / zero hour contracts and a lot more time spent walking....if you want the hours.

RM are already starting to downsize the amount of machinery devoted to sorting letters & flats. If those mail volumes continue to decline there will not be any more machinery developed to sequence further mail and certainly not bundle it up. Even the option to bundle up D2Ds into sets for each slot has been dropped.
The majority of RM sites were sold off and immediately leased back. There are a lot less physical assets left in the business now. It's all short term with no long term plan!
The internet is not secure hence why for example the NHS uses taxes to send patient information internally. Most people would not want to receive their bank statements via the Internet unless I suppose they have no money then it would just be their identity that would get stolen and misused.
I doubt the RM will exist in ten years time or if it has it will be a shell of what it now is. A more likely outcome would be it will be bought up cheap by another country and the remaining assets stripped away. Or it will get taken back by the government on reasons of national security.

Why does Ricky need a long term plan? At his age he'll be trotting off into the sunset with a big golden good bye before long. In ten years there won't be a royal mail anymore.

[fed_up_postie]

Can we have a 4 day working week, please.

For letters and flats that'll probably happen at some point.Don't know if we could see Sunday deliveries of SDs and Tracked (for a premium) eventually

Not sure I could handle this job for 20+ years on a 5 day working week. Need more rest than 1 odd day at a time. Muscles constantly aching. Maybe it's just me.

I think in general the 4 day working week has been mentioned in the media over recent months, so maybe in time it might be something that happens nationwide.

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Yeah but we weren't out till 4pm back then, yes, six days a week but Saturday was done by 11 not 3 or later as it is now. Yes we were in earlier but didn't do 9 hr days.

You must have had a bad round I never saw anything later than 8.30 on a Saturday unless I was doing overtime!

I take it you're joking, as you weren't allowed to deliver before 7am! Is it like a monty python sketch, ' you used to get up at 3am half an hr before you went to bed.......' lol

I've been in the business almost 17 years (all of them as a postie) and I remember leaving the office around 6:15-6:30am to go on delivery, start time back then was around 4:30am

[SpacePhoenix]

Can we have a 4 day working week, please.

For letters and flats that'll probably happen at some point.Don't know if we could see Sunday deliveries of SDs and Tracked (for a premium) eventually

Not sure I could handle this job for 20+ years on a 5 day working week. Need more rest than 1 odd day at a time. Muscles constantly aching. Maybe it's just me.

I think in general the 4 day working week has been mentioned in the media over recent months, so maybe in time it might be something that happens nationwide.

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Yeah but we weren't out till 4pm back then, yes, six days a week but Saturday was done by 11 not 3 or later as it is now. Yes we were in earlier but didn't do 9 hr days.

You must have had a bad round I never saw anything later than 8.30 on a Saturday unless I was doing overtime!

I take it you're joking, as you weren't allowed to deliver before 7am! Is it like a monty python sketch, ' you used to get up at 3am half an hr before you went to bed.......' lol

I've been in the business almost 17 years (all of them as a postie) and I remember leaving the office around 6:15-6:30am to go on delivery, start time back then was around 4:30am

Would that have been back when there were two deliveries per day?

[LouBarlow]

Royal Mail just isn't a sustainable business any more. Let us be honest, we are paid well in comparison to our competitors, have better T&Cs and as even I have to admit now 'Mail *is* down' in terms of letters, which was already a loss-leading service. If you try and send a parcel via RM, it is ALWAYS more expensive than doing likewise with a cheap courier - sure, we may well offer a better service (but even that is debatable with the real-time tracking Amazon and DPD offer now) but people sending parcels do not care. I had a special delivery today, that cost £27 to send! Any rival courier would quote a fraction of that.

For Royal Mail to really compete on prices, they know that they have to reduce costs in the most costly area - i.e. us. If they were paying us the pittance that Amazon pay their couriers, then they would be able to offer similar prices. Even so, I can order something from Amazon up to 11pm at night, and *still* get it next day, so their service is at least as good as ours, and I would argue better.

It might sound pessimistic but having been in the job over 15 years now, I honestly think we are seeing the end of the company in it's current form. We might have bitched and moaned before, but when some big firm swoops in and buys a majority share (probably Amazon themselves) we will be in for the shock of our lives when they tear up our contracts and start paying us the peanuts they do their own employees now.

Brace yourselves!

[matt_1983]

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Couldn't bare thinking about this.

I'd be sleeping the single day off due to being cream crackered, then straight back to work the next day for the fun to begin again. Would be a non-stop exhausting working life until old age.

I am sure not everyone feels exhausted in this job because they have very active lives outside of the job, or even do regular overtime. I must just not be up to it or it's going to take a bit longer for the aches and tiredness to disappear.

Back then, the walks were nothing like what they are now. I often wish the general public realised how much harder us posties are being worked now compared to 10+ years ago.

[michaelp]

Hi there,

I am a journalist at the Financial Times and I have spoken with some members of this forum in the past.

I thought members of the forum may be interested in this article which we published in today's newspaper:

https://www.ft.com/content/d3cd7726-c29 ... 6ca66511c9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royal Mail accord with workers ‘under threat’, says union
CWU accuses company of not honouring ‘spirit and intent’ of agreement

Michael Pooler
A fragile peace between Royal Mail and its workforce is in danger of unravelling after a trade union accused the company of not honouring the “spirit and intent” of an agreement that ended strike threats last year.

The Communication Workers Union has alleged that a wide-ranging deal that resolved a bitter dispute sparked by changes to pensions is “under threat” from management at the privatised postal service.

The agreement, which was one of the final acts of former chief executive Moya Greene, included pay rises and new pension proposals. It also contained a promise to reduce weekly working hours from 39 to 35 by 2022, subject to productivity improvements.

“Although they are talking as if they are acting within that agreement I don’t believe there’s any true spirit and intent with them to support that agreement and that’s extremely concerning,” said CWU deputy general secretary Terry Pullinger in a video message to union members.

It comes as the two sides prepare for external mediation over how Royal Mail developed plans to expand its network to improve parcel handling. In a sign of brewing tensions, the union last week warned members of “the eventuality that this dispute may not be resolved by negotiation alone”.

Rico Back, who took over as chief executive at the 500 year-old company just over a year ago, has sought to reshape its strategy in the wake of a profit warning in October. Scepticism among investors since the warning has left the stock below its 2013 flotation price.

Royal Mail insisted it was abiding by the terms of the deal and said since the implementation it had awarded two pay rises of 5 and 2 per cent, as well as granting the first hour’s reduction in the working week despite only having generated “some of the savings to pay for it”.

“We are committed to open and constructive engagement with the CWU. We all want a successful and sustainable company that provides good quality jobs, fairness in workloads, and continues delivering,” it added.

The FTSE 250 group said it had tabled proposals on the shorter working week but was disappointed by the lack of progress in discussions with the CWU. As a result, it has invoked a dispute resolution procedure giving another 30 days to continue discussions.

Mr Pullinger told the FT that a funding formula proposed by the company on which the next hour’s reduction would be based was “unachievable”. “The 2018 agreement was a blueprint for the future — mutual interest and benefits,” said Mr Pullinger. “I don’t think we share the same vision any more.”

[itinerant]

Royal Mail just isn't a sustainable business any more. Let us be honest, we are paid well in comparison to our competitors, have better T&Cs and as even I have to admit now 'Mail *is* down' in terms of letters, which was already a loss-leading service. If you try and send a parcel via RM, it is ALWAYS more expensive than doing likewise with a cheap courier - sure, we may well offer a better service (but even that is debatable with the real-time tracking Amazon and DPD offer now) but people sending parcels do not care. I had a special delivery today, that cost £27 to send! Any rival courier would quote a fraction of that.

For Royal Mail to really compete on prices, they know that they have to reduce costs in the most costly area - i.e. us. If they were paying us the pittance that Amazon pay their couriers, then they would be able to offer similar prices. Even so, I can order something from Amazon up to 11pm at night, and *still* get it next day, so their service is at least as good as ours, and I would argue better.

It might sound pessimistic but having been in the job over 15 years now, I honestly think we are seeing the end of the company in it's current form. We might have bitched and moaned before, but when some big firm swoops in and buys a majority share (probably Amazon themselves) we will be in for the shock of our lives when they tear up our contracts and start paying us the peanuts they do their own employees now.

Brace yourselves!

Excellent points. I have been in 2 years and would love to do another 12 which would get me close to retirement but I just cannot see it happening. I can see a huge shift in staff working conditions and income ahead because, as you rightly state, it is staff costs which are the biggest expense and where we are uncompetitive against all our rivals in the industry. Forget whether or not we provide a better service, that means nothing nowadays.

[SpacePhoenix]

Royal Mail just isn't a sustainable business any more. Let us be honest, we are paid well in comparison to our competitors, have better T&Cs and as even I have to admit now 'Mail *is* down' in terms of letters, which was already a loss-leading service. If you try and send a parcel via RM, it is ALWAYS more expensive than doing likewise with a cheap courier - sure, we may well offer a better service (but even that is debatable with the real-time tracking Amazon and DPD offer now) but people sending parcels do not care. I had a special delivery today, that cost £27 to send! Any rival courier would quote a fraction of that.

For Royal Mail to really compete on prices, they know that they have to reduce costs in the most costly area - i.e. us. If they were paying us the pittance that Amazon pay their couriers, then they would be able to offer similar prices. Even so, I can order something from Amazon up to 11pm at night, and *still* get it next day, so their service is at least as good as ours, and I would argue better.

It might sound pessimistic but having been in the job over 15 years now, I honestly think we are seeing the end of the company in it's current form. We might have bitched and moaned before, but when some big firm swoops in and buys a majority share (probably Amazon themselves) we will be in for the shock of our lives when they tear up our contracts and start paying us the peanuts they do their own employees now.

Brace yourselves!

Excellent points. I have been in 2 years and would love to do another 12 which would get me close to retirement but I just cannot see it happening. I can see a huge shift in staff working conditions and income ahead because, as you rightly state, it is staff costs which are the biggest expense and where we are uncompetitive against all our rivals in the industry. Forget whether or not we provide a better service, that means nothing nowadays.

I can see one of the first changes being the axing of any allowance that isn't legally required, paid meal reliefs going and meal reliefs being cut right back to the minimum legal requirement

[fed_up_postie]

Can we have a 4 day working week, please.

For letters and flats that'll probably happen at some point.Don't know if we could see Sunday deliveries of SDs and Tracked (for a premium) eventually

Not sure I could handle this job for 20+ years on a 5 day working week. Need more rest than 1 odd day at a time. Muscles constantly aching. Maybe it's just me.

I think in general the 4 day working week has been mentioned in the media over recent months, so maybe in time it might be something that happens nationwide.

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Yeah but we weren't out till 4pm back then, yes, six days a week but Saturday was done by 11 not 3 or later as it is now. Yes we were in earlier but didn't do 9 hr days.

You must have had a bad round I never saw anything later than 8.30 on a Saturday unless I was doing overtime!

I take it you're joking, as you weren't allowed to deliver before 7am! Is it like a monty python sketch, ' you used to get up at 3am half an hr before you went to bed.......' lol

I've been in the business almost 17 years (all of them as a postie) and I remember leaving the office around 6:15-6:30am to go on delivery, start time back then was around 4:30am

Would that have been back when there were two deliveries per day?

Back then I was part time so I didnt do a second delivery, but it wasn't long after I started that single day delivery came in

[citypostie]

Can we have a 4 day working week, please.

For letters and flats that'll probably happen at some point.Don't know if we could see Sunday deliveries of SDs and Tracked (for a premium) eventually

Not sure I could handle this job for 20+ years on a 5 day working week. Need more rest than 1 odd day at a time. Muscles constantly aching. Maybe it's just me.

I think in general the 4 day working week has been mentioned in the media over recent months, so maybe in time it might be something that happens nationwide.

You could do six days a week like I did in this job!

Yeah but we weren't out till 4pm back then, yes, six days a week but Saturday was done by 11 not 3 or later as it is now. Yes we were in earlier but didn't do 9 hr days.

You must have had a bad round I never saw anything later than 8.30 on a Saturday unless I was doing overtime!

I take it you're joking, as you weren't allowed to deliver before 7am! Is it like a monty python sketch, ' you used to get up at 3am half an hr before you went to bed.......' lol

Not joking, my first delivery I did 25 years ago I was nearly always done by 8.30 on a saturday. Out delivering by 6.30 or just after and then it was a hard 1 hour 30 minute slog on bike until I was done then back to office and off. Always home by 9