ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Got a question for a CWU Rep? And all CWU related matters.
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Danelectro »

baldrick wrote:
postslippete wrote: Because Teresa Mays withdrawal agreement was absolute b*llo*cks that's why,she was that desperate to please remainers she was even advocating another referendum. What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal?? Like I said we keep going round in circles because we won't take that leap of faith. So all we hear about are lots of scaremongering you said about jobs,health and homes. Pessimistic or what?? How do you know that in the long run we might actually be better off?
Well I think everyone would hope that we might actually be better off. But many doubt it. Time will tell.
It's all very well to take a leap of faith - if you have faith. But I wouldn't take a leap of faith over a cliff edge without knowing how it will work out - which is probably badly.
Screenshot 2019-07-08 at 17.42.31.png
Don't need a leap of faith you can use an economic model to analysis what the EU is.Im hanging my hat on MMT ( modern money theory) as a way to understand membership or non membership of the EU

What most on either side of the debate are using is an economic model that doesn't put bank and private sector debt and other aspects of the economy into their economic model and makes no distinction between productive and unproductive aspects of the economy hence why it descends into a bun fight between 2 opposing sides who are both promoting the same economic remedies and are only separated by their preference of membership or non membership of the EU.

For example all contracts in the NHS over £750k must be put out for private tender wthin the EU this bares little difference from what what a Blair,Cameron or May government would do wether members of the EU or not.

Richard Branson Virgin Health company has won over £2 Billion of NHS contracts in the last 5 years but still had the temerity to take the NHS to court in 2016 because his childcare bid in his opinion wasn't treated 'fairly'.You can argue that insurance based health systems are superior and that Branson is merely providing value for money (he isn't) but to accept that any democratically elected EU member states government cant overturn this framework and your on the wrong side of democracy.This is where the likes of Farage are making a killing on democratic points even though he wants to privatise the NHS himself (although he now on record as no longer a advocate of NHS privatisation)

Many who wish to remain say that restrictions on member states governments by the EU are a myth even though EU poster boy Guy Verhofstadt is promoting that all and not just some aspects of EU membeship will have no options to opt out in future.Lets take the recent democratically elected government in Italy whose leader makes Farage look like St Francis of Assisi but to his credit came up with a budget that targeted more money to the poorer areas who voted them into power.This budget was scrutinised and rejected by EU commissioners and forced to be altered under the threat of sanctions.

I see as much blind faith from remainers as I do from leavers.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Woody Guthrie »

I see as much blind faith from remainers as I do from leavers.
Leavers don't even have blind faith to rely on.
That would require a plan to put your faith in.
That's where the two positions diverge.

There's only so long you can blame the fact that nobody has a f***ing clue what they're doing on a neo-liberal media conspiracy.

Look who the leading mouthpieces for Brexit are, write the list of the top 10 and tell me who and why I should have any faith in them at all never mind blind faith.

Should we start with good old honest Boris.....
Only dead fish follow the current
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Woody Guthrie »

Yes, I'm sick and tired of hearing about Brexit as much as the next geezer, but I still think we are better off out the EU than in,
Convince me.
Without using stupid sound bites like "taking back sovereignty". That's just meaningless nonsense.
Without just slagging off the EU, that's just like moaning about an ex.
Without making promises you can't keep like £350 million for the NHS or £6 billion for farmers.

Genuine improvements for the working classes from leaving the EU.
Only dead fish follow the current
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Danelectro »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
I see as much blind faith from remainers as I do from leavers.
Leavers don't even have blind faith to rely on.
That would require a plan to put your faith in.
That's where the two positions diverge.

There's only so long you can blame the fact that nobody has a f***ing clue what they're doing on a neo-liberal media conspiracy.

Look who the leading mouthpieces for Brexit are, write the list of the top 10 and tell me who and why I should have any faith in them at all never mind blind faith.

Should we start with good old honest Boris.....
No start with this lot : Michael Hudson,Steve Keen,,Thomas Fazi,Bill Mitchell,Costas Lapavitsas,Paul Embery,Brid Smith,Larry Elliott,Jim Sllars,Bruno Macaes and from the recent past Bob Crow and Tony Benn.
postslippete
Posts: 4188
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by postslippete »

Is it possible for you to answer my questions first woody or is it too difficult??


1. Have politicians in parliament made the situation for us to leave Europe much worse? Yes or No
2. Would you be prepared for Britain to leave Europe if it were a soft Brexit? Yes or No


And from the answer to question 2...

If yes, what conditions would make you happy that Britain should leave?

If no, how will another vote work?


There isn't any catch questions, I'm just intrigued thats all
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
26l34
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by 26l34 »

Jeremy Hunt’s on ITV right now going yeah no deal would be awful, the tariffs could wipe out some businesses, and both him and Johnson are like, but so what? Democracy baby! Ten point plan! Prepare and that. Fingers crossed.

So that’s reassuring.

My wife’s GP warned her before March that, at that time, in the event of no deal the stockpile of her drugs couldn’t be guaranteed beyond a month. She’s no reason to think that’s changed. Blind faith, blitz spirit, ‘we’ survived the war rhetoric, won’t cut it for her. It’s easy to say let’s gamble when you can’t lose either way.
Tman
Posts: 4138
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Tman »

26l34 wrote:
My wife’s GP warned her before March that, at that time, in the event of no deal the stockpile of her drugs couldn’t be guaranteed beyond a month. .
Shame she didn't ask that sooth-saying GP why there would be a shortage of drugs. It's a multi-£billion industry, and continental drug manufacturers won't give up their UK market share without a fight. Those drug companies exist to make profits, and posturing politicians won't get in their way.
26l34
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by 26l34 »

That wasn’t his prediction, he was relaying advice given to him by leaders in his profession. I’ll be sure to tell her a guy on the internet says it’ll be fine though.
postslippete
Posts: 4188
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by postslippete »

26l34 wrote:
My wife’s GP warned her before March that, at that time, in the event of no deal the stockpile of her drugs couldn’t be guaranteed beyond a month. She’s no reason to think that’s changed. Blind faith, blitz spirit, ‘we’ survived the war rhetoric, won’t cut it for her. It’s easy to say let’s gamble when you can’t lose either way.
Sorry i can't imagine dozens of lorries carrying vital medical supplies being stuck on the motorway outside Dover because if people are that desperate for medicines,they will be flown in instead. Drug manufacturers make big profits and they rely on us to buy them. As always keep calm and carry on.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
26l34
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by 26l34 »

I like that you must’ve read my reply and chose to still be another guy on the internet saying it’ll be ok.
postslippete
Posts: 4188
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by postslippete »

Well I didn't say your GP was wrong, I was just wondering what drugs you would need that needs to be stockpiled for more than a month??
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
RTP
Posts: 863
Joined: 22 Apr 2011, 14:24
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by RTP »

BBC Panorama should be interesting tomorrow https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... e-17729637" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
26l34
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by 26l34 »

It’s not my GP, it’s my wife’s. We’re talking drugs that prevent her pain levels rising to the point where her body shocks and her heart rate drops to dangerously low levels. The level of pain she deals with is equivalent to that experienced by cancer patients. Obviously she’s very worried though our opposition to Brexit isn’t really personal - I’m just tired of largely comfortable, 40+ white men (I’m talking on a general level now though given this is a forum for RM employees I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the profile of most Brexiters on here too) telling everyone else why it’s all going to be probably fine and even if it isn’t, well, so what.
Tman
Posts: 4138
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 09:57

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by Tman »

26l34 wrote:It’s not my GP, it’s my wife’s. We’re talking drugs that prevent her pain levels rising to the point where her body shocks and her heart rate drops to dangerously low levels. The level of pain she deals with is equivalent to that experienced by cancer patients. Obviously she’s very worried though our opposition to Brexit isn’t really personal - I’m just tired of largely comfortable, 40+ white men (I’m talking on a general level now though given this is a forum for RM employees I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the profile of most Brexiters on here too) telling everyone else why it’s all going to be probably fine and even if it isn’t, well, so what.

No need to get all huffy. Your concerns are entirely understandable on a personal level.
The questions remains, why would there be a shortage of drugs? Who, why or what would cause that? Brussels? Dover customs? If you (or he) knows of a definitive and actual reason why there could be shortages then let's hear it soon rather than after October 31st.
Perhaps, being the clever articulate professional that GP is, he could have questioned his "leaders" because it sounds like just another baseless and illogical scare story.
You know the type; airplanes won't be able to land here or fly over EU airspace, no more French German or Spanish wines, no more Audi's or BMWs, visas to go to Spain and all the other tripe spouted over the last three years.
26l34
Posts: 148
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 16:27
Gender: Male

CWU reaffirm opposition to second referendum

Post by 26l34 »

Is it tripe or is it stuff you just don’t want to hear? Perhaps the health secretary also knows things you don’t or was he talking tripe too? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stan ... 90706.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not getting huffy, I’m not far off the demographic I mentioned, I just find it infuriating that most Brexiters I know are very fond of telling folk not to worry when they themselves have nothing to worry about either way. It’s a very privileged attitude.