Refused sick line (update)

[rehabron]

The problem here is the scumbag will dock his pay if he goes off, that's guaranteed.

How can he, if he's still covered by the GP's sick note?

http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/govern ... fit-notes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"TMAN" the above link is worth a read and I have posted this link in previous forums on this matter and this reference is exactly what TBT and myself have explained.

[Mobey]

I always thought what TBT, has said and Reahorn has said as employers can refuse to act upon the guidance issuedhowever, they have to act on occupational health.

[Tman]

I suppose it depends on what you understand by, or class as "your employer".

The OP is talking about his DOM as I understand it, ie just another low-ranking employee, and I certainly wouldn't take his/her word that they had the authority or enough understanding of the situation to insist on a return to work.
But as said, if they did, I'd insist on a written request to that end just so he knows that any worsening or reoccurring of the problem will be down to the DOM. What he doesn't want is the old "I never actually said that..." situation if things go wrong.

[Newbie001]

Would imagine taking weight off includes not driving or taking public transport. Get them to pick you up and drop you home. And when you're in do as little as possible. Might have second thoughts then.

[Mobey]

Would imagine taking weight off includes not driving or taking public transport. Get them to pick you up and drop you home. And when you're in do as little as possible. Might have second thoughts then.

Fair play. But then you might then have his dom say to him your not fit to do the job, you shouldn't be at work.

Double standards.

[rehabron]

I always thought what TBT, has said and Reahorn has said as employers can refuse to act upon the guidance issuedhowever, they have to act on occupational health.

Its like a boxing match fighting for you in your corner is your GP who has known you and your family for years whose purpose is your health and wellbeing although since the introduction of the " fit note" can qualify the note with other alternatives other than " UNFIT FOR WORK" dependant on what you have stated at the doctors appointment and the medical condition you are seeing the GP for.
In the opposite corner is the Occupational Health Specialist who receives a remuneration from the employer for assessing your medical condition and they feel that they are more qualified than your GP to make a decision on your ability to return to work on work related matters having more knowledge on the various types of work undertaken in your working day.
The employer in the majority of cases again dependant on your illness will seek advice from their appointed occupational health specialist and is more likely to accept this report above a GP report but they can choose to disregard if they wish but the consequences of failing to accept OH report can open up the door for very expensive compensation claims. Line managers afraid of the roof falling in on them will normally prefer to accept the OH report unless they are under pressure from a higher authority within the company that they can pass the blame on to should there be a backlash and will then state is wasn't me.
If there is a dispute between GP and OH recommendations they can request with your consent that both parties contact one another to come to an agreement what is the best approach to take.
RM can take action to stop your payment of wages and this has been known again dependant on the severity of your illness and their current policy seems to be that as they are paying you full wages while absent they want you back at work where they can keep an eye on you rather than you being out of their sight at your home. This can also be extended to you returning to work and doing no work at all.

[bobthepostie]

The DOM is not medically trained. They cannot go against the advice of a doctor. I'd be handing it in, and what he does with it is his choice. You've been told by a GP to rest. Case closed.

Sorry but thats wrong, the law has now changed and the Bosses can ignore fit notes.

Mind you they would have to be prepared to justify why they did so, and what medical advice they sought from the in-house specialists (OH assist) that led them to make that decision. They would have to also justify why it was a reasonable demand/request.

I would first ask the Manager, with reps advice, to get OH Assist to assess you, over the phone if necessary.


Source: http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/govern ... fit-notes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Government tells employers they can overrule GP fit notes

Apologies. Wasn't aware that the rules had changed. Was going with the advice given to me by a senior CWU rep last year when I was facing the same issue.

*EDIT* Notice that that link is dated from 2013. Confused now.

[Sir Henry]

It seems to me that the OP has little option. Forgive me if I appear to be an idiot or labouring a point but...

Has OH Assist been involved? My guess would be no

Do the screws HAVE to get OH Assist involved and receive a report before they ignore it? They start crying about the cost f OHA referral as a reason not to involve them (worlds smallest violin starts up)

A work plan AGREED and signed by both parties (none of this ooh dear they haven't sent the papers to sign yet, just do this work in the meantime I'm sure the papers will turn up within the next week or so lie lie lie) would seem the VERY MINIMUM protection required along with something that protects against the following scenario...

If the screw gets the OP back into work and then decides that there are no light duties and OP should go back on the sick then that would count as a second absence no?

So what is the OPs next move? Ask for a referral to OHA if they aren't already involved? And what if the Screw refuses?

I'm trying to get a good grounding in the way the some scumbags try to circumvent the sick absence procedure.

[steve1873]

I received a sick line for 2 weeks this morning and when I presented it to my Dom he has refused it. He says I have to come in on light duties. It is a foot injury.
Had a quick look on government pagea and apparently it is illegal to do this and they depot will not be covered for insurance purposes if anything happens to me.
Just as some context, i have never been ill my entire working life.

We have a few illnesses at moment so I assume he is panicking about that.

Had a quick chat with a lawyer friend and he has warned me that I could sue both the company and the DOM if anything was to happen.

I certainly don't want it to get out of hand as I love my job and my working life will certainly be strained after this.
But surely I am in the right to be concerned with this behaviour

Ask him where he studied medicine, and if he could kindly show you his PHD. You will be waiting at home until such time as he can provide it. Oh and file a grievance!

[telithowitis]

Make sure you make a copy of the note
Stay at home,
Send it to DOM personally recorded delivery or by email and ask for his instructions in writing not verbally. Tell him in the letter that you intend to follow the advice of your doctor and that you as well as him have a responsibility for your health and safety at work
Inform him that you wish to make a formal complaint against him for bullying and harassment
Get the rep/area rep to email you the form and submit it, even if he backs down still submit it.

Personally I think the DOM deserves to be sacked for bullying etc

[Mobey]

Sacked you say.

Promotion is what they (Royal Mail) say! I swear their bonuses get bigger by the amount people they bully by mismanaging, I mean managing situations well.

They'll get promoted for their incompetence!

[Batsugun]

First of, thanks for all the advice.
Got the union rep involved and so far that is the end of it. I have the duration of my fit note to stay off and recover.

I will see if I am contacted before the two weeks is up to go back or if I have problems with DOM when I do go back. Time will tell.

I think the majority of the thinking behind these "rules" is to make it more difficult for long term sick or people who play the system. In my case, this is a first (and last) sickness I have had in my 16 years of working life. It seems we really are treated all the same.

Thanks again

[peshwaarinaan]

Batsugan stand your ground. I was off sick last year with a hand injury and management were harassing me to go in. OH got involved. I said I'd been advised to rest and elevate my hand. Management had asked the specific question that could I go in and use one arm. OH said no as that would lead to repetitive strain injury. DOM backed off in the end but only because I stood up to them. We often have lame ducks in our office on light duties. One bloke at the moment is throwing mail up with one hand, even though he's been told to rest and elevate his injured arm. People aren't doing themselves any favours in the long run.

[Batsugun]

Hey everyone, just thought I would give an update on this situation.

So after I got the reps involved, I thought that was it. However a few days later I received a letter from my Dom stating I would not be paid. Due to him not finding the absence as necessary.
After a few phone calls and legal action threats, I got my wages back dated.
He says it is the way the company is now and was out of his hands.

So I thought that was that. But got a letter this morning saying I have to attend a meeting to discuss my poor attendance. Since I had 14 days absence, I am on a stage 1 warning. Normally I would just say fair enough but after the s**t storm of this situation, I'm not to happy about that. My main concern is
I was off for 14 "Earth days" but only 10 working days. So Royal mail are counting Sundays and days off as a sick day. A bit odd me thinks.
So I assume for people in the future it will stand like this. If my day off was Saturday and I was off ill on Friday, then by Monday I will have accumulated 3 sick days and on the Monday I will be paid due to their no pay for 3 days rule that is now implemented but haven't actually been official.

I plan to discuss all this at my meeting next week.

I never thought taking a sick line would cause so much hassle. I think I will be working on my death bed feom now on a

[Tman]

It's always been that way; if you're sick Mon-Fri and then Mon-Fri the following week then you must have been sick over the middle weekend too. Unless you can prove that there's separate reasons or separate illnesses you'll accumulate 12 days sick rather than ten no matter how many working days that would have been.