CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 27 Oct 2016, 18:08

I think that your talk of "indoctrination" and "workers" is "talk" enough for any thread. Are you on some sort of wind-up or are you like dear old jet and really believe all this tosh you both spout?

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 27 Oct 2016, 18:17

Tman wrote:I think that your talk of "indoctrination" and "workers" is "talk" enough for any thread. Are you on some sort of wind-up or are you like dear old jet and really believe all this tosh you both spout?

Is not worktime learning indoctrination and is the fact that some work harder than others in royalmail if you can refute both I will take my hat off to you but to me you are nothing but a charlatan at best and a troll at worst.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 27 Oct 2016, 18:24

k979aaa wrote:
Tman wrote:I think that your talk of "indoctrination" and "workers" is "talk" enough for any thread. Are you on some sort of wind-up or are you like dear old jet and really believe all this tosh you both spout?
Is not worktime learning indoctrination and is the fact that some work harder than others in royalmail if you can refute both I will take my hat off to you but to me you are nothing but a charlatan at best and a troll at worst.

Jeez - is wee man still trolling me ?

Stop following me

Post by **dvbuk55** » 27 Oct 2016, 19:32

jetblack wrote:
k979aaa wrote:
Tman wrote:I think that your talk of "indoctrination" and "workers" is "talk" enough for any thread. Are you on some sort of wind-up or are you like dear old jet and really believe all this tosh you both spout?
Is not worktime learning indoctrination and is the fact that some work harder than others in royalmail if you can refute both I will take my hat off to you but to me you are nothing but a charlatan at best and a troll at worst.
Jeez - is wee man still trolling me ?

Stop following me

Actually jet, I don't think it's trolling if he finds you intellectually attractive, he may find your posts the perfect foil for the reality he and the rest of us live in

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 27 Oct 2016, 19:47

dvbuk55 wrote:
Actually jet, I don't think it's trolling if he finds you intellectually attractive..

Tman - is this true ? Do you find me attractive ?

You should have said wee man

I feel such a pranny now

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 27 Oct 2016, 21:22

k979aaa wrote:
Tman wrote:I think that your talk of "indoctrination" and "workers" is "talk" enough for any thread. Are you on some sort of wind-up or are you like dear old jet and really believe all this tosh you both spout?
Is not worktime learning indoctrination and is the fact that some work harder than others in royalmail if you can refute both I will take my hat off to you but to me you are nothing but a charlatan at best and a troll at worst.

You need to look up "indoctrination" and "perspective" in the dictionary, and as for some working harder than others, well, that's irrefutable, but what's it got to do with Corbyn? Anything?
Regarding dear old jet, you need to tell him (he says he ignores me, y'know..

) that he needs to change the record; he's used the same riposte at least three times now, but keep it up both of you....it's always entertaining to see and hear zealots' views of the world.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 28 Oct 2016, 08:21

Tman wrote:it's always entertaining to see and hear zealots' views of the world.

I think zealot may be a bit strong tman, I mean the definition in the dictionary states:

"a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals."

Well on reflection ......................

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 28 Oct 2016, 15:59

dvbuk55 wrote:
Tman wrote:it's always entertaining to see and hear zealots' views of the world.
I think zealot may be a bit strong tman, I mean the definition in the dictionary states:

"a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals."

Well on reflection ......................

Is this a self-declaration of your zeal against Corbyn.

I am, in some way, jealous of some in this thread.

I see people in a variety of tones and colours and that no one is perfect but most are only out to do what they think is best for everyone.

The zealots on both sides see Corbyn as either the Devil Incarnate who can do no right and the Messiah bringing on the socialist rapture who can do no wrong.

I wish life and people really were that Black and White and 2 dimensional. Life would be easier but a lot more boring.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 28 Oct 2016, 16:26

Hmm, whimsical and not a little judgemental.
Corbyn is no devil, he really isn't that good, he's just another "I'm sure he means well in his own way, but as with Michael Foot, he is more principles than pragmatism".. the type which the labour party did so well to keep hidden in the back room for decades.
Really he's just another version of the metro elite of whatever flavour....out of touch, and in Corbyn's case, unelectable.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 28 Oct 2016, 16:57

There's little difference between the intellectual and moral snobbery shown by Corbyn's "team" and the financial entitlement snobbery shown by the likes of Cameron and Osborne. It's arrogant elitism any way you slice it...

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 28 Oct 2016, 17:46

Its not really about Corbyn for me. Corbyn is just the catalyst. A very important catalyst, yes, but nonetheless a catalyst. I don't really believe in leaders anyway - and I don't really think Corbyn does either FWIW. But he's being carried along by forces greater than himself, almost accidentally. Only leaders I personally have identified as people that I could have followed were the great Muhammad Ali and my father. Aside from those two, no-one.

Its about socialism and democracy for me - neither of which over the last 35 years the Labour Party has embraced to any great extent.

Will anyone really vote for May on the strength of her charismatic leadership ? I don't think they will - I believe they will (or hopefully won't) vote for her on the strength of what she offers to them individually. Isn't that what we all do ? Only some of us have the wisdom to know that our individual self interest is bound up with the collective self interest .
It is In this sense that Jeremy Corbyn and socialsim offers a great deal to the individual and the electorate at large.

But its not about personalities.

It shouldn't be about personalities anyhow

If it makes me a zealot because I actually believe in something, then a zealout I am, and proud to be. But I don't think that in general usage the word zealot is equated with having values and beliefs is it ?
A free flow of information, a level playing field for children, a freedom from exploitation for the vulnerable, an equitable share in the product of their labour for workers, a share in this countries natural resources and wealth for all its citizens and not just a handful. A world where class, race and gender have no bearing upon an individuals ability to prosper.

Does this make me a zealot these days ?

Post by **dvbuk55** » 28 Oct 2016, 19:08

jetblack wrote:Does this make me a zealot these days ?

Yes!

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 29 Oct 2016, 09:48

jetblack wrote:Its not really about Corbyn for me. Corbyn is just the catalyst.
A free flow of information, a level playing field for children, a freedom from exploitation for the vulnerable, an equitable share in the product of their labour for workers, a share in this countries natural resources and wealth for all its citizens and not just a handful. A world where class, race and gender have no bearing upon an individuals ability to prosper.
?

Wonderful and admirable aspirations (though a little Miss World contestant in the naivety), and something no-one could ever really quibble with, but Corbyn to be the "catalyst" to achieving some/any of those aims? He can't even deliver a unified electable party, let alone hoping to achieve any of the above.
And that is why dear old jet is a zealot..

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 29 Oct 2016, 11:14

Only some of us have the wisdom to know.....

That's where you're going wrong Jet, you've mistaken your opinion for wisdom and you know what they say about opinions...

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 29 Oct 2016, 17:19

jetblack wrote: Only some of us have the wisdom to know that our individual self interest is bound up with the collective self interest .

That is the full quote Fishtank - you've chopped it to suit your own interests and completely ignored the point I was making.
Was it arrogant of me to suggest that I might have this wisdom ? Not a very wise move, so to speak ?
Shoot me

And I didn't really state that I had wisdom to be fair.
Its splitting hairs. And boring.

Or are you somehow suggesting that the individuals self interest isn't bound up with the collective self interest - that is, the interests of their family unit, their community, their trade union, their country/world ???
Solipsism. Childhood egocentricity. The jungle. Fishtank banging his head against a glass cell of his own making, like a , well, like a fish in a tank

Come on man - enter the debate instead of scoring points.

And, just for the record, you still haven't given us your view on clause IV - on socialism, that is.
I can only take it that you don't approve. And because you don't approve you don't have any real answers for the problems people face going forward that can't be provided by the Conservative Party.