Postmen demanding your full name, for signed for items

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The force is heavy on this one padawan.

What I think is happening is that the poor old postie is the one caught in the middle. There is probably a jobs worth manager insisting on full details for every scan, indeed he may be a new manager in the office, and yourself who is aggrieved by the change in process.

There is no excuse for bad manners, but you'll appreciate that there is a lot of stress passed down from above with targets for this, targets for that, you must deliver by, you must achieve 95% delivery of all packets, delivering to neighbours, being disciplined for minor infractions or even just plain simple mistakes. I think you may just have had a bad day at the same time and this is the result.

Be a little empathetic when you next interact with them and I' think the service will return to normal. One things for sure posties don't change systems that work, managers do seem to adopt a different approach sometimes.

Are they signing on behalf of an address or a person?

an address, royal mail don't deliver to people just addresses.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The force is heavy on this one padawan.

What I think is happening is that the poor old postie is the one caught in the middle. There is probably a jobs worth manager insisting on full details for every scan, indeed he may be a new manager in the office, and yourself who is aggrieved by the change in process.

There is no excuse for bad manners, but you'll appreciate that there is a lot of stress passed down from above with targets for this, targets for that, you must deliver by, you must achieve 95% delivery of all packets, delivering to neighbours, being disciplined for minor infractions or even just plain simple mistakes. I think you may just have had a bad day at the same time and this is the result.

Be a little empathetic when you next interact with them and I' think the service will return to normal. One things for sure posties don't change systems that work, managers do seem to adopt a different approach sometimes.

Are they signing on behalf of an address or a person?

Always the address with Royal Mail, we never do person to person. Even Special Delivery is address rather than addressee.

[coxie]

Yeah correction on my earlier message my manager always insists we asks the name of the person signing only if we are delivering to neighbour

[White Van]

Always the address with Royal Mail, we never do person to person. Even Special Delivery is address rather than addressee.

an address, royal mail don't deliver to people just addresses.

So the OP can easily give an assumed surname and initial. The GPS on the device will confirm the location of the delivery and the confirmation of a name and signature, job is done and any dispute is between the customer and seller if a fraudulent delivery has occurred.

[Spedley]

A signed for item does not protect against fraud or provide proof of delivery in any way - it is just to provide a traceable handover. When the customer (sender) asks where there parcel is we can state it was delivered to e.g. Mr Adam Bloggs at 10am on 25th, look here is his signature to confirm the handover. 90% of the time the customer then remembers the parcel and says "Oh, that one I was expecting another one which hasn't turned up yet. Sorry". Should the customer deny receipt then they can escalate their claim in the usual manner regardless of a signature and an investigation should begin to find what has happened.

The person who signs for the item should be uniquely identifiable to the occupants of the house and this usually means they need to give an initial or name. It may feel like an invasion of privacy but if you really think about it ...

[coxie]

Good point , you'd be surprised how many builders or other workmen may open peoples front doors and if we hand it over to them and then misplace it of steal it then as I customer my first argument would be to ask Royal Mail " well who signed for it". I don't see what the fuss is about, if you sign any other document in the world 99% of the time you have to print your name.

[Himaggen]

The Scanning section of the Training Manual for use of the PDA, page 21 - Delivered Items states:

5 - If a signature is required use the keyboard to type in the full name of the customer.

6 - Handover the PDA and ask the Customer to Sign in the box provided.

So the postie has been trained to ask for a full name, they have followed their remit to the letter.

Also

18.4 Upon delivery of an item with Royal Mail Signed For 1st Class or Royal Mail Signed For 2nd Class added the addressee or their representative must sign (or otherwise provide some form of proof of delivery as we may specify). Where such a signature or proof of delivery is refused to be provided to us then the item may be dealt with or disposed of as we consider appropriate. Please note that the representative could be someone else at the delivery address or a neighbour.

What happens when your son's mate answers the door due to him being otherwise indisposed, or your neighbour signs without giving a name and you make a claim. Whilst the above does not implicitly state anything about a full name, the required proof of recipient in the fore mentioned cases would be the name given, not the squiggle in the box.

The proof of delivery name/signature is available for up to three months and a delivered verification for up to twelve months.

[meercat]

A bad postman who does know me as he has delivered before, gave me a knock and had an item that needed to be signed for. Well fine except he demanded that I give him my full name.

Interesting. I think you have many issues and could have an argument in an empty room. Obviously you must be some sort of 'Freeman' going by your 'legal fiction' description of a name.

Well a postman is a working man and you should not have issues with a man doing his job - your issues are with the State and it's apparatus surely? The Police might have time to have a 30min argument with you about legal technicalities and the Magna Carta but Posties don't - so next time just give him your friggin initial and let him get on with his life.

[windermeredave]

A bad postman who does know me as he has delivered before, gave me a knock and had an item that needed to be signed for. Well fine except he demanded that I give him my full name.

Interesting. I think you have many issues and could have an argument in an empty room. Obviously you must be some sort of 'Freeman' going by your 'legal fiction' description of a name.

Well a postman is a working man and you should not have issues with a man doing his job - your issues are with the State and it's apparatus surely? The Police might have time to have a 30min argument with you about legal technicalities and the Magna Carta but Posties don't - so next time just give him your friggin initial and let him get on with his life.

And might I suggest the OP actually get a life, looks like a serial complainer to me.

[Himaggen]

I really see no need to resort to name calling the client in this case.

Their issue is that they don't see a need for the full name and signature request and other than an end user manual there appears to be no stipulation regarding it. In these days of electronic data storage and hacking the less information stored, even over relatively small periods of time, can be of concern. Additionally, the guy two doors down may only be known to the client as Bob, Robert Pattinson may not help them at all in determining the actual recipient.

I can see a reasonable solution being that the non signature PDA input is either' address based', (i.e. Number 4 or The Barn); and/or 'named', (i.e. Bill or Townsend).

[meercat]

Calling someone a 'serial complainer' is not name-calling it's an observation Dave made.

And by the way this guy is not a customer of ours he is the recipient of the package. The customer is the guy who paid the postage costs - and indeed paid for a legible signature to be taken.

[Himaggen]

Calling someone a 'serial complainer' is not name-calling it's an observation Dave made.

Of course they're calling someone a name, the name they are calling them is 'serial complainer'!
Also, they have made a single complaint over a request for a full name, a run of one is not usually termed a serial, pattern or series and therefore that observation is unfounded and therefore rude.

And by the way this guy is not a customer of ours he is the recipient of the package. The customer is the guy who paid the postage costs - and indeed paid for a legible signature to be taken.

Other than the quoted section from the PDA usage manual, you'll note that the terms I used were client and recipient; and, where did your newly introduced signature legibility statement come from?

[White Van]

I really see no need to resort to name calling the client in this case.

Their issue is that they don't see a need for the full name and signature request and other than an end user manual there appears to be no stipulation regarding it. In these days of electronic data storage and hacking the less information stored, even over relatively small periods of time, can be of concern. Additionally, the guy two doors down may only be known to the client as Bob, Robert Pattinson may not help them at all in determining the actual recipient.

I can see a reasonable solution being that the non signature PDA input is either' address based', (i.e. Number 4 or The Barn); and/or 'named', (i.e. Bill or Townsend).

Surname, first initial and ..house number or name if delivered to a neighbour. If you're going to hand over stuff to Mr M. Mouse who happened to be outside of the property at the time then it's down to you really.

[meercat]

Calling someone a 'serial complainer' is not name-calling it's an observation Dave made.

Of course they're calling someone a name, the name they are calling them is 'serial complainer'!
Also, they have made a single complaint over a request for a full name, a run of one is not usually termed a serial, pattern or series and therefore that observation is unfounded and therefore rude.

And by the way this guy is not a customer of ours he is the recipient of the package. The customer is the guy who paid the postage costs - and indeed paid for a legible signature to be taken.

Other than the quoted section from the PDA usage manual, you'll note that the terms I used were client and recipient; and, where did your newly introduced signature legibility statement come from?

Can you not just reply without quoting half my post??

Dave said he 'looked' like a serial complainer. So he's made one complaint yes maybe, but Dave said he 'looks' like one not he IS one = you are wrong here and Dave has a legitimate opinion so let him have it please. You might think that using this descriptive term is rude, I don't. What I think IS rude is you telling people they are being rude and then telling them what to think.

Client and customer are interchangeable terms. The guy is NOT a customer, nor a client. Please try to understand that, it's quite simple.

Where did my Signature legibility statement come from? Well I made it so from me. So you are saying I can't introduce new angles here? No, we have to listen to you and no-one else? The service we take extra payment for is to get a signature at the door from the recipient. I would assume, you know it's kind of common sense, that it should be legible. SORRY for even mentioning it.

[Himaggen]

Can you not just reply without quoting half my post??

No I cannot; I quote the pertinent text relative to my response or comment. (It also helps to prevent later editing spoiling the flow of the conversation, for other subscribers).

Dave said he 'looked' like a serial complainer. So he's made one complaint yes maybe, but Dave said he 'looks' like one not he IS one = you are wrong here and Dave has a legitimate opinion so let him have it please. You might think that using this descriptive term is rude, I don't. What I think IS rude is you telling people they are being rude and then telling them what to think.

Well I may have accepted your request had Dave actually seen the OP, (look), I can only assume therefore that the statement is judgemental based on little 'unfounded' information and therefore rude.

Client and customer are interchangeable terms. The guy is NOT a customer, nor a client. Please try to understand that, it's quite simple.

You are entirely free to make that submission, but believe me in all meetings that I attend it understood that a client is a person who uses 'Our' services. They may be the sender, a 3rd party intermediary or the recipient; all use our services and certainly without the latter there will be no former.
Also please remember that whilst I agree with the term customer being specific to the 'sender' this forum area is named Customers and is not limited to senders.

The service we take extra payment for is to get a signature at the door from the recipient. I would assume, you know it's kind of common sense, that it should be legible.

There is no requirement for any signature to be legible, we've known for years that that many people whose profession requires for multiple signatures have a tendency for illegible ones, (e.g. Doctors), and many of our end users may have physical limitations which can affect their signature legibility, notwithstanding the awful unit touch-screen.
I take it you're not telling Mrs. Jones to do it again and make a better stab at it if she ever wants to take receipt of her mail item.