"Signed For" item show signed, recipient claims non-receipt

[Online Seller]

Hello,

Thank you to anyone who is kind enough to help me.

I started my working life in the postroom of a major record companies. We posted out 1000s of records, CDs, DVDs, videos, game a week. The one thing that always impressed me about the Royal Mail was the honesty and efficiency in returning undeliverable post. Especially when it revealed that various people in the companies were using the postroom to run their own operations, as items were returned to us due to the Franking Machine Number ! And of course letters to various pop-stars with addresses only partially written ( in crayon or green biro ... ). I have great faith in the Royal Mail and would never use the terrible services offered by the likes of Yodel.

These days I sell on Amazon and Ebay. I send EVERYTHING Recorded, now known as Signed For. I have sent around 10,000 " Signed For " items, and of those, only 5 or 6 have ever been genuinely, absolutely lost and never returned. In each instance, the online tracking has shown " We have your item. Your item was posted at 1 Anystreet, Anytown, A11 1AA " and never progressed any further. even when I checked the number 6 or 9 months later. Un-recovered and a complete mystery. Having absolute faith in the Royal Mail Signed For Service, I invariably had long since binned the receipt, so never put in claims. ( My local delivery office told me that on a very odd occassion an RD/SF might be rubber banded bundled with a pile of post, or might be one of several RD/SF and an eagle eyed scamster might try the opportunity out ... )

Over my years of selling online, I have been subject to all sort of dishonety, and each one has taught me a lesson about how to package and ship items to prevent such activity again. However, I have a problem customer, and this one has left me stumped.

They emailed me claiming A) that they had not received and B) because of this they had to purchase a replacement on the high street ( as usual, I spolled little Jimmys birthday ).

I was immediately dubious, because the item, an obscure video game released over 5 years ago, on a now little supported format, is virtually impossible to buy on the High Street. Over 1000 Game, Gamestations, Blockbusters and HMVS have closed in the last 3 years. The supermarkets only sell "New Releases" and "Top 10". Of the shops left, I could probably visit every shop in the country and never find it. I would not even bother

So, the fact that they claimed they had had to buy a replacement on the high street, due to non delivery, made me immediately suspicious.

I checked the Signed For Tracking.

Sure enough, the Tracking stated delivery, on the date I expected it to be delivered, with a squiggle, and "Printed Name" given as the customer.

I sent the customer the information and expected to hear no more from them. It is not the first time somebody has claimed a Signed For was not delivered, only to disapear, melt away, or tell me they made a mistake between orders, once the Royal Mail Signed For information has been shown to them.

The customer is persisting to state that they didn't get the item, it was not their signature, and anyway they were not in on the day and time stated.

I asked if they could check their immediate neighbors. They claim that they have, and nothing.

I wanted to contact the relevant delivery office, but the RM website gave me the 0345 number, which is a call centre. I explained the issue and I have been promised the manager of the relevant Delivery Office will speak with the Postman and that I will get an answer in 3 days.

Incidentally. I asked the customer, that if they sent me a photograph or scan of the receipt from the un-named high street shop. Unfortunately, they have "thrown the receipt away".

I'm waiting to hear back from RM.

I am just wondering if any experienced RM people might have any ideas or experiences that might shed light on this. How a Signed For delivery, with a squiggle, and a printed name detailed as the recipients name, could disappear into thin air.

Thanks in advance for any illumination.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

They won't be able to show you it, but every scan we make on our PDAs has a GPS tag included. The manager for the Postie will hopefully as part of his investigation check the scan for your item and report back.

You could email the customer back and advise them of this and see what happens.

[greengiant]

They won't be able to show you it, but every scan we make on our PDAs has a GPS tag included. The manager for the Postie will hopefully as part of his investigation check the scan for your item and report back.

You could email the customer back and advise them of this and see what happens.

<offtopic> Does the GPS tag still work if the PDA comms are suspended? </offtopic>

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yes GPS is separate from the Mobile network, it will store the information from the GPS satellites until you upload it to the servers.

[NewPostieUK]

My local delivery office told me that on a very odd occassion an RD/SF might be rubber banded bundled with a pile of post

Not sure what this means. A recorded / Signed For is treated the same as any other mail item. It's not separated, if it is small enough (such as a DVD or CD) it might well be bundled up with ordinary mail. I do it all the time.

As for the name on the PDA (scanner) I often put the name in before I knock. The name is meant to be the person signing, not necessarily the person who's name is on the packet. However, if I know that only mr, mrs and little Jimmy Smith live at the address, I can be confident that one of them will answer the door, so input the surname before knocking, just to speed things up. It's possible a postman might do this, then when someone different answers, they don't change the name. They might get a signature from a neighbour without changing the name. So a squiggled 'm jones' with be matched with a SMITH. This shouldn't happen of course, but it does, and might be a possible reason for the signature not matching the name and/or the reason for your customer to take one look and say thats my name but not my signature, I want my money back!

As an eBayer and browser of the eBay forums, I'd say that almost always the receiver can do nothing, as the signature is taken as proof of delivery, no matter what they say. They might make a claim but eBay finds in favour of the seller.

[Online Seller]

Thanks guys for all the help so far !

Any more info gratefully recieved ! Thank You !

OFF TOPIC - What I meant by a Signed For item rubber banded up - essentially a customer gets a handed a pile/stack/clump of post, and is not asked to sign anything. Upon going through the post, they find a Signed For, that SHOULD but was NOT signed for, so realising no signature was given for the item, they then make a claim of non-delivery. I have a strong suspicioun it happened to me on Ebay. I advertised items saying "I post ONCE a day, EACH day at 9AM". Somebody bought something at around 4.30 on say Thursday. I ran off and posted it Recorded (as it then was), but I didn't come home till late, so had done nothing with the receipt, and planned to mark it as despatch on Friday around 9.30 AM. On Friday not long around 8.30 AM, I got an illiterate and demanding email asking for their tracking number, which I found suspicious, as theoretically, the item would even not have posted yet, and theoretically, the customer did not know that I had actually posted the night before, so why were they demanded the tracking. I checked the tracking. It showed as "We Have Your Item". I suspected that the item had indeed been delivered, but the customer knew something was irregular about the delivery. Over the next couple of days a recieved daily demands of " I have not got my item yet, where is it " type. Eventually I spoke to my postman and the local delivery office and they suggested the above theory. After telling the customer that I would be contacting the investigations team, who might involve the police, as theft of post was a criminal offence, I never heard from them again, which I took to mean they were not genuine.

[NewPostieUK]

- What I meant by a Signed For item rubber banded up - essentially a customer gets a handed a pile/stack/clump of post, and is not asked to sign anything

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be getting more common. The person prepping the mail into the frame isn't the person delivering, and simply doesn't care. A signed for should be at the front of that addresses mail, but it might well be stuffed into the bundle, as you say. The person delivering is meant to flick through, but could easily miss something if they aren't expecting it.

Bottom line is, you probably have a dodgy buyer, let them make a claim, stand your ground and hopefully they'll lose the case.

[SpacePhoenix]

- What I meant by a Signed For item rubber banded up - essentially a customer gets a handed a pile/stack/clump of post, and is not asked to sign anything

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be getting more common. The person prepping the mail into the frame isn't the person delivering, and simply doesn't care. A signed for should be at the front of that addresses mail, but it might well be stuffed into the bundle, as you say. The person delivering is meant to flick through, but could easily miss something if they aren't expecting it.

Bottom line is, you probably have a dodgy buyer, let them make a claim, stand your ground and hopefully they'll lose the case.

Probably long term standards need to be set out for how the person prepping the frame does it when they're not the person delivering it

[Online Seller]

- What I meant by a Signed For item rubber banded up - essentially a customer gets a handed a pile/stack/clump of post, and is not asked to sign anything

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be getting more common. The person prepping the mail into the frame isn't the person delivering, and simply doesn't care. A signed for should be at the front of that addresses mail, but it might well be stuffed into the bundle, as you say. The person delivering is meant to flick through, but could easily miss something if they aren't expecting it.

Bottom line is, you probably have a dodgy buyer, let them make a claim, stand your ground and hopefully they'll lose the case.

Thank You.

With regard to the "Dodgy Buyer", do you mean the scenario in the very 1st post ? That is the one I am worried about.

(The post about the rubber bands was a long time ago, and was certainly dodgy, stood my ground and never heard from them again).

[NewPostieUK]

Probably long term standards need to be set out for how the person prepping the frame does it when they're not the person delivering it

You can say that again! My frame is a mess ona daily basis.

With regard to the "Dodgy Buyer", do you mean the scenario in the very 1st post ? That is the one I am worried about.
.

Yes. As an eBayer I've filled my BBL (Blocked Bidder List) with these people who claim not to have received something, yet it was signed for (probably by their postman, or a neighbour, but I'm pretty sure they get the item).