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enforcement lapsed meal breaks

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IcanthelpthewayIam
Posts: 4067
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:37
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by IcanthelpthewayIam »

hans solo wrote:THINK WE WILL JUST PHONE HSE and see what they have to say
wouldnt like to drop on duty not having full break entitlements
i would think corporate manslaughter would come into it
the wifey has been informed
and as for having a break in the van they would need steam cleansed every day
rem we used to get our full breaks pre sdd
or maybe i will just rip the pish out of return to office turn 20min into 40 then i will get about an hour :nana :nana :nana
more than one way to skin a cat as they say :left:
as said you are getting the legal requirement corporate manslaughter wouldnt come into it unless they were giving you less of a break than you were legally entitled to. if RM only gave you a 20 minute break in an 8 hour shift then they would not be breaking any law (they dont you get more than the minimum)

as for just phoning the HSE they are not going to do anything, have you raised a grievance over this with your dom?

in fact the HSE website says you should raise it with the employer first and only if unable to resolve then take it to them, so first step is a grievance or speak to your h + s rep

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/raising-your-concern.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The law requires employers and the self-employed to conduct their business in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons affected are not exposed to risks to their health or safety. This includes providing essential welfare facilities for employees.

You can find out what the health and safety law requires by searching our website, start by looking under the relevant topic or industry section.

If you consider that your employer (or someone else’s) work activity is putting your safety at risk or damaging your health, then you should raise your concerns with that employer or person. If no improvement is made and your safety or health continues to be at risk, then you can report your concern to the relevant enforcing authority and ask them to look into it.
motherhubbard
Posts: 1001
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Location: in the cupboard

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by motherhubbard »

hans solo wrote:i can if its legal requirement overules local agreements

waken up and smell the coffee :Very Happy
The legal requirement is the first 20 minutes.
The timing of the second 20 minutes is a result of collective bargaining.

I think you need the coffee to sober up.
Never let the hand you hold, hold you down.
aiden01
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Joined: 27 Feb 2013, 21:43
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Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by aiden01 »

motherhubbard wrote:
hans solo wrote:i can if its legal requirement overules local agreements

waken up and smell the coffee :Very Happy
The legal requirement is the first 20 minutes.
The timing of the second 20 minutes is a result of collective bargaining.

I think you need the coffee to sober up.
never heard of a local agreement that can rule over a legal requirement :hmmmm
motherhubbard
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Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by motherhubbard »

aiden01 wrote: never heard of a local agreement that can rule over a legal requirement :hmmmm
And in this case what legal requirement do you think is being overruled by a local agreement?
Never let the hand you hold, hold you down.
aiden01
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by aiden01 »

Op wants to take his full meal relief where does it say he is not allowed
fishtank
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Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by fishtank »

aiden01 wrote:Op wants to take his full meal relief where does it say he is not allowed
The timing of meal relief is part of the revision process and as such down to local agreement, If the office has agreed to split the 40 min break that's what happens.
There is no breach of the working time regulations as long as there is scope to take 20 mins "roughly" in the middle of your working day and by roughly I mean very roughly.

If on the other hand the revision allows for taking the full 40 mins and the manager has changed this to suit himself I would certainly raise a grievance and continue to take my full meal relief.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
IcanthelpthewayIam
Posts: 4067
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:37
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by IcanthelpthewayIam »

aiden01 wrote:Op wants to take his full meal relief where does it say he is not allowed

The point is there is no legal entitlement to the second 20 minute part of his break as such no law being broken by manager when being told when to take it. The second 20 min as pointed out is by local agreement and if op is not happy he needs to raise a grievance.

The working time directive only covers a single 20 minute break in a shift in excess of 6 hours any breaks more than that are not covered by law and are only contractual between the employer and employee
bogstandard
Posts: 1074
Joined: 08 Nov 2007, 06:16

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by bogstandard »

it matters not a jot what the office has voted for , the splitting of breaks is in TWF and is for irregular attendance patterns and is only a guide.
M/R cannot be planned to be taken at the end of a duty. The M/R should be , as has benn said before, roughly in the middle. If you choose to split it then that a is personal choice, and so long as your lino or DOM do not have a problem it's not a problem.
Confused... You won't be, after the next episode of. SOAP
IcanthelpthewayIam
Posts: 4067
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:37
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by IcanthelpthewayIam »

bogstandard wrote:it matters not a jot what the office has voted for , the splitting of breaks is in TWF and is for irregular attendance patterns and is only a guide.
M/R cannot be planned to be taken at the end of a duty. The M/R should be , as has benn said before, roughly in the middle. If you choose to split it then that a is personal choice, and so long as your lino or DOM do not have a problem it's not a problem.

If the 40 minute meal relief is split into 2 20 minute breaks then the second 20 minutes can be scheduled to be taken at the end of the shift
gand
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Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by gand »

Breaks cannot be taken at the end of your working day or the start. fact! What ever your dom or royal mail or the cwu say.

2. Taking breaks
Employers can say when employees take rest breaks during work time as long as:

the break is taken in one go somewhere in the middle of the day (not at the beginning or end)
workers are allowed to spend it away from their desk or workstation (ie away from where they actually work)
It doesn’t count as a rest break if an employer says an employee should go back to work before their break is finished.

Unless a worker’s employment contract says so, they don’t have the right to:

take smoking breaks
get paid for rest breaks.

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/taking-breaks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IcanthelpthewayIam
Posts: 4067
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:37
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by IcanthelpthewayIam »

gand wrote:Breaks cannot be taken at the end of your working day or the start. fact! What ever your dom or royal mail or the cwu say.

2. Taking breaks
Employers can say when employees take rest breaks during work time as long as:

the break is taken in one go somewhere in the middle of the day (not at the beginning or end)
workers are allowed to spend it away from their desk or workstation (ie away from where they actually work)
It doesn’t count as a rest break if an employer says an employee should go back to work before their break is finished.

Unless a worker’s employment contract says so, they don’t have the right to:

take smoking breaks
get paid for rest breaks.

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/taking-breaks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is talking about your statutory rest break ie the first 20 minutes. Your second half of your 40 minute break is not covered by the law hence it can be taken at the start or end of your shift
gand
Posts: 253
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 17:36
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by gand »

No my break is 40 minutes
IcanthelpthewayIam
Posts: 4067
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:37
Gender: Male

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by IcanthelpthewayIam »

:thumbup
gand wrote:No my break is 40 minutes

Legally you are only entitled to 20 minutes everything over that is contractually with Royal mail. The legal protections that you mentioned only cover the first 20 minutes of your 40. The 40 minutes can be split as long as there is one block of 20 minutes as a break in the middle
steve1873
Posts: 800
Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by steve1873 »

If you wish to take your 40 minutes before commencement, then take it. It is your meal relief entitlement, not the managers. If he has a problem, get rep involved and file a grievance.
motherhubbard
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010, 17:13
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Location: in the cupboard

Re: enforcement lapsed meal breaks

Post by motherhubbard »

steve1873 wrote:If you wish to take your 40 minutes before commencement, then take it. It is your meal relief entitlement, not the managers. If he has a problem, get rep involved and file a grievance.
If the office has voted to split the meal relief, then that is what happens.
Write to the HSE, write to your rep, write to your Branch, write to the Pope if you like, it won't make any difference.
If he office has voted to split the break 20/20 with the final 20 minutes at the end, you do not have a legal entitlement to take the full 40 minutes in one go because you do not have a LEGAL ENTITLEMENT to a 40 minute break.

The legal requirement is to provide a 20 minute meal relief roughly in the middle of the duty.
That is all the WTR provides for. And it doesn't have to be a paid break by law.

The rest of the 40 minute paid meal relief we enjoy Is down to collective bargaining and is decided as part your revision process.
Those of you who think it Is all a matter of individual whim clearly have no understanding of what collective bargaining is.
Never let the hand you hold, hold you down.