The logic behind red cards being needed to pick up post

[Hildergard]

I had an extremely frustrating experience at the local sorting office this afternoon. Due to a mix up the red card for an item delivered when we were out was lost. I went to the sorting office with my drivers license as ID but the (very surly) guy behind the counter said 'No red card no package'. I explained what had happened with the red card, explained exactly how important the letter was and not only showed him my drivers license but described the letter. Still no joy.

My question is this. What difference would the red card have made to security? My drivers license has my name, address and PHOTO on it and I was also able to describe the package. How likely is it that I'd go into a sorting office on the off chance that there would be a letter to someone else that had my name and address on it that happened to fit the description I gave? I can understand someone finding a red card in the street and going in without ID and taking someone else's post but what happened in my case makes absolutely no sense at all. Anyone know the logic behind this?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

If we didn't insist on brining the red card what would there be to stop you turning up the next day and claiming you didn't pick up the item today? Insisting on brining the red card helps cut down on fraud etc

[Hildergard]

How could I pick it up again if I'd already collected it the day before? And people could just sign when they pick something up without the red card. It's just bureaucracy for the sake of it.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

You could claim you never came in the day before to pick it up, if you still had the red card RM couldn't prove you picked it up the day before

[Hildergard]

But if people signed to say they'd picked it up how could they do that? Does the Royal Mail not have the technology for people to sign on collection of an item?

Give me an example of how it could benefit someone to try to pick something up twice.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Ok if someone sent £1000 in cash by special delivery missed the delivery and got a red card, went to delivery office with id and picked up the letter, went back the next day and blatantly lied said I'm here to pick up the item here the while you were out card, they would have a claim for the item going missing and thus possibly get £1000 cash in compensation, if Royal Mail had insisted on getting the red card the day before they could say the item was picked up yesterday here's the red card to prove someone came in to collect the item

As for the technology to sign saying they didn't have the card yes that wouldn't be too hard but that doesn't prove that the person collecting the item had access to the address on the item, yes you may have a driving licence with that address on it but that doesn't prove you were not evicted a few days ago, Royal Mail deliver to addresses not people so by giving it to someone who we can't verify has had access to the address on the item we have not fulfilled our obligation to the customer to deliver it to the address they sent it to

[Hildergard]

So, the letter has my name on it but I may have been evicted a few days before? Eviction wouldn't change my name! Going with the red card and a utility bill doesn't prove I wasn't evicted a few days before either. And why would it matter! The letter has been sent to me. And how many times does someone send £1000 in a letter? Come on, let's be realistic here. My post goes missing all the time. Everything that was sent to me on 19th November hasn't arrived but allowing me to pick up a letter, which I can describe perfectly, accompanied by photo ID that also has my address n it - the same address that is on the letter - is somehow encouraging fraud? Do you work in the policy making dept by any chance?

And when the postie gets my signature when he delivers something how does it know it's really me? It could be a burglar, or the woman who feeds the cats while I'm away or the cleaner and they could be fraudulently pretending to be me to get the £1000 that aunty flo has sent me. If it really is about fraud prevention then posties should be asking for ID at the door.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

So, the letter has my name on it but I may have been evicted a few days before? Eviction wouldn't change my name! Going with the red card and a utility bill doesn't prove I wasn't evicted a few days before either. And why would it matter! The letter has been sent to me. And how many times does someone send £1000 in a letter? Come on, let's be realistic here. My post goes missing all the time. Everything that was sent to me on 19th November hasn't arrived but allowing me to pick up a letter, which I can describe perfectly, accompanied by photo ID that also has my address n it - the same address that is on the letter - is somehow encouraging fraud? Do you work in the policy making dept by any chance?

And when the postie gets my signature when he delivers something how does it know it's really me? It could be a burglar, or the woman who feeds the cats while I'm away or the cleaner and they could be fraudulently pretending to be me to get the £1000 that aunty flo has sent me. If it really is about fraud prevention then posties should be asking for ID at the door.

You asked for an example, people send money with special delivery all the time, important documents and valuables etc that's why treat them securely and make sure they are delivery only to the address on the item in compliance with our terms and conditions. And if whoever sent you the letter decided they wanted it sent by a means where by a signature was required from someone at the address then we have done exactly what the customer has paid for us to do. If you don't want the hassle of having to not lose the card and then collect the item next time get the person sending the item to choose a service that doesn't require you to do this if you are not in, we have handled this item the way the customer paid us to handle it

It doesn't matter who answers the door at your address we deliver to the address not the person named on the letter.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I had an extremely frustrating experience at the local sorting office this afternoon. Due to a mix up the red card for an item delivered when we were out was lost. I went to the sorting office with my drivers license as ID but the (very surly) guy behind the counter said 'No red card no package'. I explained what had happened with the red card, explained exactly how important the letter was and not only showed him my drivers license but described the letter. Still no joy.

My question is this. What difference would the red card have made to security? My drivers license has my name, address and PHOTO on it and I was also able to describe the package. How likely is it that I'd go into a sorting office on the off chance that there would be a letter to someone else that had my name and address on it that happened to fit the description I gave? I can understand someone finding a red card in the street and going in without ID and taking someone else's post but what happened in my case makes absolutely no sense at all. Anyone know the logic behind this?

The logic has been explained. The policy is no Red Card no collection. It may seem trivial to you but Royal Mail operate a no 2nd chance system with us posties, and failure to follow Policy has meant people being sacked in the past.

Being sacked as a possible outcome because a customer does not have a red card is not a trivial matter.

However, it would/should have been explained that they could arrange a redelivery to the same address on a day of your choice, be nice go back down to the callers office and request it.

[Hildergard]

So, the letter has my name on it but I may have been evicted a few days before? Eviction wouldn't change my name! Going with the red card and a utility bill doesn't prove I wasn't evicted a few days before either. And why would it matter! The letter has been sent to me. And how many times does someone send £1000 in a letter? Come on, let's be realistic here. My post goes missing all the time. Everything that was sent to me on 19th November hasn't arrived but allowing me to pick up a letter, which I can describe perfectly, accompanied by photo ID that also has my address n it - the same address that is on the letter - is somehow encouraging fraud? Do you work in the policy making dept by any chance?

And when the postie gets my signature when he delivers something how does it know it's really me? It could be a burglar, or the woman who feeds the cats while I'm away or the cleaner and they could be fraudulently pretending to be me to get the £1000 that aunty flo has sent me. If it really is about fraud prevention then posties should be asking for ID at the door.

You asked for an example, people send money with special delivery all the time, important documents and valuables etc that's why treat them securely and make sure they are delivery only to the address on the item in compliance with our terms and conditions. And if whoever sent you the letter decided they wanted it sent by a means where by a signature was required from someone at the address then we have done exactly what the customer has paid for us to do. If you don't want the hassle of having to not lose the card and then collect the item next time get the person sending the item to choose a service that doesn't require you to do this if you are not in, we have handled this item the way the customer paid us to handle it

It doesn't matter who answers the door at your address we deliver to the address not the person named on the letter.

Sounds like it's about litigation.

Someone comes in to collect £1000, doesn't get it, RM can be sued. Deliver to the address on the letter, someone else signs for it and keeps the £1000, RM don't care.

And I still don't get why me having possibly being evicted a few days before has any bearing on whether I should get my post.

[Hildergard]

The logic has been explained. The policy is no Red Card no collection. It may seem trivial to you but Royal Mail operate a no 2nd chance system with us posties, and failure to follow Policy has meant people being sacked in the past.

Being sacked as a possible outcome because a customer does not have a red card is not a trivial matter.

However, it would/should have been explained that they could arrange a redelivery to the same address on a day of your choice, be nice go back down to the callers office and request it.

The logic hasn't been explained, the policy has.

I don't need to go back to the sorting office. I made an official complaint, which was taken very seriously. The guy behind the counter wasn't just sticking to policy he was wielding the tiny bit of power he had with great joy. The person behind me was told he didn't have to have any ID because the guy behind the counter 'knew who he was'. He also told a woman who was trying to pick something up for a friend that if she came back with a utility bill he'd overlook the ID not matching. To me however, he was unpleasant, surly, obtuse and rude. I have a friend who works for RM as a postie so I know just how difficult it can be for staff right now. However, the guy who dealt with me behaved really badly and shouldn't be in a role where he's dealing with important issues for people. If he'd said 'I'm really sorry, I understand it must be frustrating but I have to stick to the policy set out by RM. I'll get it redelivered asap' I would have been fine (this letter contains a prescription and has serious implications for my son's health, which the guy knew because I told him) As it is he was just gleefully unhelpful. I don't complain about people lightly but I hope this guy gets the retraining he obviously needs or is moved to a role more suitable to his temperament. Prison guard perhaps.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

And I still don't get why me having possibly being evicted a few days before has any bearing on whether I should get my post.

Because we have no way to verify you still live at that address other than you bringing the red card to prove you still do. Again we are not delivering the item to you we are delivering it to your address, it just also happens to have your name on it and for added security to ensure you know it's being collected we ask to see your id as well

[aposter]

Basically it stops anyone else from bringing the red card in at a later date asking for the item, either from a mallicous attempt at fraud or indeed a partner not realising the item had been collected already. As you can imagine at this time of year there are thousands of faces and parcels and trying to find an item that as already been collected is extremely stressful and time consuming for all concerned. Yes RM can check if an item as been signed for already, but only if that tracking number is known and/or written in the card. As mentioned even when RM can show a signature as been received the fact you have the card still would give you ammunition to turn round and say that is not my signature etc etc (his has happened).

[clashcityrocker]

The policy is no Red Card no collection.

Is it?
Where does it say that?
I've worked in the callers and we always gave out items without the card and wrote it down in a little book.
The DO where I currently live has a sign up saying "due to volume of work no items can be collected without a card on Saturday" but obviously can the rest of the week.

It might be a local policy.

[aposter]

The policy is no Red Card no collection.

Is it?
Where does it say that?

On the P739 card. Or at least it used to. And on checking, still does.