Pensions

[moanmoanmoan]

dvbuk55,

Having been previously rebuked I was discussing the spanish practices quoted by your board moderator who as a working member of your service obviously has a full and working knowledge of these practices:

1 - the 92 Spanish practices carried out in Royal Mail - the one he mentioned about finishing in 2 hours early Royal Mail brought that in when they got rid of the 2nd delivery as an incentive to get everyone round their duty as quickly as possible. They even gave it a name "Job and Finish". The union fought it but it was brought in anyway. Very disingenuous for Royal Mail to now use it against us. The other 91 practices he has now said, quietly, that they are not endemic and don't happen everywhere. The ones that do are those that Management bribe us with to do extra work.


If Crozier has recinded then great for you guys.

You can not hold me accountable for the results not being accredited. If this interim report proves wrong then I would suggest that your union's lawyers have a go at them rather than me. As directors they are legally accountable.

In reality when the audited figures are published do you honestly think they will look any better?

I agree - Croziers bonus is disproportionate.

I think directors of public companies should receive bonuses in proportion to the workforce.

I also think that bonus payments ar different to salary - they are a "benefit" and not a right. At the end of the day bonuses should be paid for either meeting a set criteria or for efforts over and above the basic. I do not agree that either directors or workers should be paid bonuses for carrying out their contracted job.

So in response no, I do not think that your pathetic bonuses were equitable.

Hand on heart we both know that some deserved £5K and some deserved nothing

I did not say that capitalism created an even society - just a more even society than dictatorships or communism

[IWW Fellow Worker]

I did not say that capitalism created an even society - just a more even society than dictatorships or communism

Examples?

[moanmoanmoan]

IWW,

Examples - Former USSR, North Korea, China. former Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Moldova.

Not forgetting Cuba - probably the most successful of the bunch - at least they get decent healthcare and education alsong with the usual cr*p standard of living.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

IWW,

Examples - Former USSR, North Korea, China. former Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Moldova.

Not forgetting Cuba - probably the most successful of the bunch - at least they get decent healthcare and education alsong with the usual cr*p standard of living.

Oh right. I thought you were going to give a few examples of communism. Instead, you gave a list of authoritarian state capitalist countries.

[moanmoanmoan]

L Tommo,

It is very easy to blame the Murdoch press but your union leaders have not done a good job in the PR battle.
As you state the Mirror is a leftie rag - as for that matter is the Guardian(the schoolteachers favourite), the independant and the observer.
The Sun during the last two election campaigns has supported Labour as do you guys.

Out of interest why do you guys still support the Labour Party as frankly they do very little for you?

The announcement this week of a rise in the inheritance tax for couples of £600K must but a great boost for the average postie.

Your comment on the average wage does not really mean a lot. An average(mean) means that some get more and some get less skewed by the top and bottom ends.

Using the median figure as a target may be more realistic - this looks at the the number of half the population and therefore takes out the less realistic figures - ie Croxier on £1million/year and a part timer on £1000/year.

I agree totally with you that the deregulation of the industry and a move towards privatisation is a bad move.

The post service offers a great service and good VFM for customers.

No private venture could ever afford to provide the single price stamp to all areas of the country.

With this in mind the RM should not be considered as a money maker but a service for all.

The nature of a service however means that wages need to be kept at sensible levels for all.

Most of all how can the government justify Crozier being payed £1m/year.

I think you should get bonuses should be paid to all on merit and in a similar proportion

[IWW Fellow Worker]

L Tommo,

It is very easy to blame the Murdoch press but your union leaders have not done a good job in the PR battle.
As you state the Mirror is a leftie rag - as for that matter is the Guardian(the schoolteachers favourite), the independant and the observer.
The Sun during the last two election campaigns has supported Labour as do you guys.

Out of interest why do you guys still support the Labour Party as frankly they do very little for you?

The announcement this week of a rise in the inheritance tax for couples of £600K must but a great boost for the average postie.

Your comment on the average wage does not really mean a lot. An average(mean) means that some get more and some get less skewed by the top and bottom ends.

Using the median figure as a target may be more realistic - this looks at the the number of half the population and therefore takes out the less realistic figures - ie Croxier on £1million/year and a part timer on £1000/year.

I agree totally with you that the deregulation of the industry and a move towards privatisation is a bad move.

The post service offers a great service and good VFM for customers.

No private venture could ever afford to provide the single price stamp to all areas of the country.

With this in mind the RM should not be considered as a money maker but a service for all.

The nature of a service however means that wages need to be kept at sensible levels for all.

Most of all how can the government justify Crozier being payed £1m/year.

I think you should get bonuses should be paid to all on merit and in a similar proportion

Tommo!

[moanmoanmoan]

IWW,

You are obviously on a different planet to the rest of us.

I think calling the former USSR a capitalist regime is stretching the boundries of reality.

I actually agree with your sentiments that in an ideal world socialism would be great.

We all do our thing and work for the collective benefit of all. In a micro economy this works.
A family for example - typicallly a man and woman earn differing wages, take differing responsibilities and pool their resources.
The key here however is an element of trust

Over a larger population it just does not work in our or any society.
In a truly socialist society why would someone train for years to be a doctor or dentist to receive the same reward as someone that had not?

Much as you do not like the concept generally a leader is required - as in your union. They are paid vastly more than you - is this fair?
Other than liking the sound of their own voices I am sure that your union leaders do have to work longer hour than the average postie. They also get more grief and hastle. If they did not get more money I do not think that there would be a queue for the job.

If you do manage to crack a truly socialist society then please pencil me in for local park keeper in the summer and supermarket shelf stacker in the winter.
Low stress combined with moderate physical demands - all for the same money as someone that works in a factory or on the bins.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

IWW,

You are obviously on a different planet to the rest of us.

I think calling the former USSR a capitalist regime is stretching the boundries of reality.

I actually agree with your sentiments that in an ideal world socialism would be great.

We all do our thing and work for the collective benefit of all. In a micro economy this works.
A family for example - typicallly a man and woman earn differing wages, take differing responsibilities and pool their resources.
The key here however is an element of trust

Over a larger population it just does not work in our or any society.
In a truly socialist society why would someone train for years to be a doctor or dentist to receive the same reward as someone that had not?

Much as you do not like the concept generally a leader is required - as in your union. They are paid vastly more than you - is this fair?
Other than liking the sound of their own voices I am sure that your union leaders do have to work longer hour than the average postie. They also get more grief and hastle. If they did not get more money I do not think that there would be a queue for the job.

If you do manage to crack a truly socialist society then please pencil me in for local park keeper in the summer and supermarket shelf stacker in the winter.
Low stress combined with moderate physical demands - all for the same money as someone that works in a factory or on the bins.

All of which shows us that just because someone might have turned up at a university, it does not neccessarily mean they are educated. Here we have a specimin of 'humanity' who cannot tell the difference between a capitalist state and a state capitalist one. This sad waste of space and taxpayers money appears on here spouting his pro-management and pro-scab line, then it assumes to lecture us all on how to conduct our dispute. It then tries to lecture those of us with many years of involvement in the class struggle on the subject of socialism and what it imagines constitutes socialism. I simply point it in the direction of the works of Rudolf Rocker, (which is a simple name for it to remember since it appears to be off it's rocker), Nestor Makhno's peerless ''The Struggle Against The State and Other Essays' and the works of Albert Meltzer. It might then have a grap of what constitutes real socialism and it might then be able to do without regurgitating half digested editorials from the tabloid press.

[moanmoanmoan]

LWW,

I am getting more respect for you. Though the tone is typical you are at least attempting to construct a discussion rather than just a tirade of abuse.

I am most impressed that you have managed to trawl the net for the titles of a few obscure essays by left wing inconsequentials.

Next you will be telling me that you have read and understood them - whilst probably not having managed to comprehend their place in society (the under desk general file)

I was accused by one of your fellow lefties of undertaking a mickey mouse degree -afraid not as I stated before I did mechanical engineering.

At what stage during a mechanical engineering course do you think that a study of the rantings of an unknown, unproven and uninteresting leftie would be appropriate. I mean the great works of some workshy socialist should indeed be a key part of medicine, dentistry and engineering. All the great developments in society have, without doubt been achieved through people reading this BS.

My education has not been a waste of taxpayers cash. It was just geared towards things somewhat more tangible than a BA Socialist BS.
I used to pay more in tax than you earn up until last year. I then woke up, set up my own company and vastly reduced my tax bill. I, like you have to play the system.


I do not read tabloids so I am afraid it is unlikley that I am regurgitating their content.

If you actually read my posts you could hardly say that my stance is pro management.

Pro "Scab" is another great immotive point to bring in.

Please read and understand my posts. You are very happy to accept that your management, the government and the press produce propoganda and yet swallow the rantings of a few unknown leftie prats as gospel.

The key difference between us is that I am happy to admit that I agree with some of your points and grievances.

Many of the proposed changes are unreasonable.

You do however make things impossible. If you courted support from the general public on the reasonable issues you could have the likes of me writing to their MP's and signing petitions - get enough support and it makes a difference.

Your stance is simple - "I do not talk to anyone whose opinion differs from mine in any way"

You will not accept compromise and feel that it is wrong for anyone to earn more than you - whatever they do

[POSTMAN]

What the hell is going on here!
I'll move this to Customers,safe in there.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

LWW,

I am getting more respect for you. Though the tone is typical you are at least attempting to construct a discussion rather than just a tirade of abuse.

I am most impressed that you have managed to trawl the net for the titles of a few obscure essays by left wing inconsequentials.

Next you will be telling me that you have read and understood them - whilst probably not having managed to comprehend their place in society (the under desk general file)

I was accused by one of your fellow lefties of undertaking a mickey mouse degree -afraid not as I stated before I did mechanical engineering.

At what stage during a mechanical engineering course do you think that a study of the rantings of an unknown, unproven and uninteresting leftie would be appropriate. I mean the great works of some workshy socialist should indeed be a key part of medicine, dentistry and engineering. All the great developments in society have, without doubt been achieved through people reading this BS.

My education has not been a waste of taxpayers cash. It was just geared towards things somewhat more tangible than a BA Socialist BS.
I used to pay more in tax than you earn up until last year. I then woke up, set up my own company and vastly reduced my tax bill. I, like you have to play the system.


I do not read tabloids so I am afraid it is unlikley that I am regurgitating their content.

If you actually read my posts you could hardly say that my stance is pro management.

Pro "Scab" is another great immotive point to bring in.

Please read and understand my posts. You are very happy to accept that your management, the government and the press produce propoganda and yet swallow the rantings of a few unknown leftie prats as gospel.

The key difference between us is that I am happy to admit that I agree with some of your points and grievances.

Many of the proposed changes are unreasonable.

You do however make things impossible. If you courted support from the general public on the reasonable issues you could have the likes of me writing to their MP's and signing petitions - get enough support and it makes a difference.

Your stance is simple - "I do not talk to anyone whose opinion differs from mine in any way"

You will not accept compromise and feel that it is wrong for anyone to earn more than you - whatever they do

Once again, Dipshit here, in its attempt to look clever, labels Makhno, Rocker and Meltzer as 'left-wing', thereby showing its complete ignorance of the facts. It also appears to think that I am in some way 'left-wing'. Here we are, living in an age when all manner of information is readily available, where literature can be purchased without having to leave the home, yet thicko here has not the slightest grasp on the meaning of socialism. It gives further evidence of its stupidity by imagining its MP might be interested in a letter it might send. Dear, oh dear! What a total dickhead it is!

[BELIAL]

Think you might have foul hooked a postgrad student eager for cerebral combat, give him two weeks research he'll be back. If he mentions Durkheim or Webber ,kill him

[moanmoanmoan]

How can you call this lot anything other than left wing?

Why would I purchase anything to support the rantings of these idiots?

A letter from me will indeed make no difference to my MP - 1 million letters to MP's however might.

If each postie managed to get 10 people to write then suddenly you do have an issue - I know it involves actually doing something so this type of action is beyond your scope.

I see that once again you have reverted to type and gone for the insult. If rational argument escapes you then go for insults - good cover for being f***ing stupid.

The "it" thing is very Silence of the Lambs -deivative but different.

As ever you will not engage in sensible discussion.

May be it is can't rather than won't.

I am however impressed by you knowledge of obscure literature that no normal person can be bothered to read.

I had you down as a Daily Sport - readers wives subscriber.

[BELIAL]

How can you call this lot anything other than left wing?

Why would I purchase anything to support the rantings of these idiots?

A letter from me will indeed make no difference to my MP - 1 million letters to MP's however might.

If each postie managed to get 10 people to write then suddenly you do have an issue - I know it involves actually doing something so this type of action is beyond your scope.

I see that once again you have reverted to type and gone for the insult. If rational argument escapes you then go for insults - good cover for being f***ing stupid.

The "it" thing is very Silence of the Lambs -deivative but different.

As ever you will not engage in sensible discussion.

May be it is can't rather than won't.


I am however impressed by you knowledge of obscure literature that no normal person can be bothered to read.

I had you down as a Daily Sport - readers wives subscriber.

Got anything interesting\pertinent to say, forget about parliamentry democracy cos i think most of us crossed that bridge long ago

[moanmoanmoan]

Belial,

I am not a postgrad student though I do enjoy a reasoned discussion

My reason for logging onto the site was to find out about the post dispute and understand the issues.

True Blue terrier has helped and I am sympathetic in many ways to the posties.

IWW is a leftie idiot who is interesting to talk to.

Frankly Durkheim is just dull - France is full of socialists so there is no tangible reason to drag up ones from the previous century.