Item sent to the US...

[TrueBlue1981]

OK, I'm not sure if I'm in the right section, or if anyone here can actually help due to the nature of the problem, and that being an international parcel will most likely be out of Royal Mails hands... but I do need somewhere to vent my frustration.

Basically, I sent out a parcel to my girlfriend in Florida on the 5th December. I didn't use a tracking service because I've never needed one before. I've been sending her parcels for over 3 years, and they usually arrive dead in exactly 1 week to the day (sometimes 8 days) without any problems whatsoever.

However, this time a MONTH has passed and she has not yet received the parcel. Being that I sent it via the Post Office, I can only assume it was Royal Mail who delivered the item to the plane to ship it.

We've both been in contact with USPS and Florida Customs in the past 2 weeks, and the only help we've got is it may have been held up in customs. Given the the lack of a tracking number, I'm not surprised they can't help. We've also been in contact with Royal Mail who was only able to inform us about filing a lost package claim after 23 business days have passed, which they will have shortly, and that it COULD take up to 25 business days to arrive. I do realize this was during the initial surge of the Christmas rush post, but even so... 30 DAYS? ONE MONTH? NO PACKAGE?

Now, she also shipped to me a package, a few days before I shipped mine to her... and mind sure enough arrived after 1 week, and received it in two weeks, due to ParcelForce taking an eternity to post to me the customs fee forms. So from the US to the UK arrived quickly. She also purchased an item from China on eBay which was dispatched on 16th December, and she received it on the 30th December. What the Hell? I can only assume the item IS currently in Florida, but has possibly been held up in Customs for some reason.

I put on the little customs sticker the contents of a Teddy Bear, Christmas Cards and Chocolate. There was 3 small bottles of perfume in there to, but I omitted them from the form just in case US Customs decided they wanted to peek inside.

Anyway... the upshot of this is that why has it taken an entire month for my package NOT to delivered to her? Royal Mail cannot help due to no tracking number and it being international, and USPS/Florida Customs are being not very helpful.. again, possibly due to the lack of a tracking number.

Umm, I guess any sort of help... no matter how small... will be appreciated greatly. Many thanks.

[adb2aber]

I put on the little customs sticker the contents of a Teddy Bear, Christmas Cards and Chocolate. There was 3 small bottles of perfume in there to, but I omitted them from the form just in case US Customs decided they wanted to peek inside.

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... s-overseas

There are some items which Royal Mail is unable to carry internationally for legal or health and safety reasons. This comprehensive A-Z guide gives you detailed information about the things you cannot post with us, as well as highlighting the areas where there may be exceptions.

If you are a business customer, see our prohibited goods page for business customers.

Failure to comply with these regulations could result in prosecution. You are responsible for checking whether or not an item is prohibited.

[...]

Flammable liquids
This includes mixtures of liquids or liquids containing solids in solution or suspension which give off a flammable vapour. Any liquid with a closed cup flash point below 60.5° C is prohibited e.g. acetone, benzene, cleaning compounds, gasoline, lighter fuel, paint thinners and removers, petroleum and solvents, certain alcoholic beverages, perfumes and aftershaves, varnishes and enamels including nail varnish.

My bolding above for emphasis.

Your parcel was likely picked up as containing Prohibited goods liable to cause a fire and with the potential to destroy an aircraft. Congratulations on trying to kill aircrew. If you had a return address on the parcel there is a very slim chance of having some of the other items returned. More likely the whole lot has been destroyed. You left them off the CN22 Declaration presumably to avoid her having to pay fees on import or hoping to avoid them being noticed because so what if US Customs open the parcel? It's not like you are sending dangerous ite... oh, wait, yes it is.

[TrueBlue1981]

I've always left items off the Customs sticker, because there isn't enough space as the sticker is tiny. They've never looked inside any of the packages I've sent to the US so why they may have decided to look in this one I have no idea, since there as nothing about the package that could have made them open it up. And I never realized that perfume was prohibited until a few days ago when I decided to check what can and can't be sent.

And if they destroyed the entire contents JUST for 3 small bottles of perfume... and I mean REALLY small... then I want some compensation for the items that were NOT perfume. It's not that hard to take out the 3 SMALL bottles of perfume and throw them away and leave the rest in there. On top of that, US customs should have sent a notice to the recipient about any of the items being destroyed, just as a courtesy so that she knows... and I know... what has happened to my expensive parcel.

And my girlfriend, nor I, has NEVER had to pay any customs fees on parcels sent to the US, so no... I didn't miss them off the customs sticker to avoid playing import fee. I just missed them off because I never list EVERYTHING in the parcel because the customs sticker is far too small to list the entire contents. Whenever I list the items, the parcel has always been way too big and heavy to match up with what's on the sticker, but they're never been opened before.

And my girlfriend recently shipped a laptop to me... are you telling me that a huge battery that can cause an epic explosion is less of a threat than 3 small bottles of perfume? Hmm....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

No we are not - we are not Royal Mail.

Even then its not Royal Mail who makes the rules, they have to abide by them.

If you don't like the rules may I suggest contacting IATA who are the body responsible for making them.


The reason they have probably stopped the items this time is that the rules changed in early 2013 so they have probably stepped up the detection process and equipment since the last time. Also I believe that HomeLand Security wants everything going to the USA scanned and x-rayed, its probably at this point that it was caught.

Lithium batteries are fine in Royal Mail as long as they are contained inside another item, (Laptop, Phone etc) and have the correct labels. Its when lithium batteries are packaged on their own without equipment, or in multiples that they become a danger.

In fact you can send perfume as long as you follow the strict guidelines, restrictions and documentary requirements.

Perfumes and aftershaves
Including eau de parfum, eau de toilette and alcohol-free perfumes, but excluding non-flammable perfumed creams, gels, oils or lotions.

Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package. The perfume or aftershave must be within its original retail packaging and then placed in strong outer packaging. The inner packagings must be packed, secured or cushioned to prevent breakage or leakage of their contents into the outer packaging.

An ID8000 label must be applied ( see example ID8000 label Opens in new window ). The sender’s name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.

Unfortunately, ignorance of a requirement is not an accepted defence when it comes to either law or compensation.

[harry84]

I've always left items off the Customs sticker, because there isn't enough space as the sticker is tiny. They've never looked inside any of the packages I've sent to the US so why they may have decided to look in this one I have no idea, since there as nothing about the package that could have made them open it up. And I never realized that perfume was prohibited until a few days ago when I decided to check what can and can't be sent.

[...] On top of that, US customs should have sent a notice to the recipient about any of the items being destroyed, just as a courtesy so that she knows... and I know... what has happened to my expensive parcel.

Your parcel will have got nowhere near US customs. It will have been scanned and identified as dangerous when leaving the UK. And it will never have left.

And my girlfriend, nor I, has NEVER had to pay any customs fees on parcels sent to the US, so no... I didn't miss them off the customs sticker to avoid playing import fee. I just missed them off because I never list EVERYTHING in the parcel because the customs sticker is far too small to list the entire contents. Whenever I list the items, the parcel has always been way too big and heavy to match up with what's on the sticker, but they're never been opened before.

See above.

And if they destroyed the entire contents JUST for 3 small bottles of perfume... and I mean REALLY small... then I want some compensation for the items that were NOT perfume. It's not that hard to take out the 3 SMALL bottles of perfume and throw them away and leave the rest in there.

You will likely not get this. Unfortunately, you were in violation of Dangerous Goods regulation.

Did you post this at a Post Office?? If so, did they ask you what was inside and what did you say? Most will ask you to ensure compliance but ultimately responsibility for the contents lies with the sender.

[TrueBlue1981]

There was only 4 small bottles of perfume in the parcel... about 5cm tall / 2cm wide... with a combined total volume of LESS than 150ml, all where in their original packaging and brimming with bubble-wrap, since I didn't have any boxes small enough to put them all in. I'm not sure if they were flammable perfumes, but the rest of the requirements were adhered to. So if they were flammable, than I didn't realize.

I still don't see the problem with either removing the 'dangerous' perfume and resealing the package, then send it off as safe... or sending a letter to the recipient (since I forgot to put my address on there) to let them know the current situation, as the recipient could have then told me, and I could have contacted Royal Mail. So because of that, £100 worth of items was most possibly destroyed? It's one thing to destroy the dangerous items, which I understand, but WHY the need to destroy the ENTIRE package, when only one small portion of the contents is considered dangerous? Do they not stop to consider the effects that will have on the person who bought all the items, or the effect on the person who was supposed to receive them? They must have seen a Tatty Teddy, some chocolate and a Christmas card as dangerous as well.

I did post this via a Post Office yes... and they asked me what was in it, I started by saying "A plush, some chocolate, er..." and I guess they took that 'Er' as a pause then pointed to a chart and asked me if the package contains any of the following items... I looked and for the life of me could NOT see anything that said 'Perfume' or anything that resembled perfume... so I said "No, nothing like that" Not seeing perfume on the prohibited items chart lead me to believe that perfume was safe to send out.

Also... I still fail to understand how a big laptop battery poses LESS of a threat than 4 small bottles of perfume. Especially when it's still in the laptop. Have any of you actually SEEN a laptop battery explode? Watch a video on YouTube, it's both epic and brutal at the same time. Far, FAR more destructive than any perfume bottle could ever be. And can someone explain to me why it's OK to travel with perfume in a suitcase when you travel on holiday, but it's NOT OK to send it in a package? Sense? There is none.

And this statement on the Royal Mail site... "If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods" ..to me, that means they only dispose of the item that presents any danger... in this case, 4 small bottles of perfume. If that statement actually means they destroy the ENTIRE package, then it should say otherwise.

[Pinky 1]

TrueBlue1981, the Yanks don't feck about when it comes to their security regarding incoming packets and parcels anymore.
They have robust agreements in place with most countries now. If the item, after being scanned, does not satisfy their rules completely then it's binned.
They're not interested in picking out the bits of the parcel that are okay, and sending on the rest. They just want the whole thing binned.
Any address found could be passed onto Homeland Security, but they're certainly not going to write you a nice note explaining what they've done to your parcel.

Take it as a lesson learnt mate, and next time read all the rules and follow them completely.

[harry84]

There was only 4 small bottles of perfume in the parcel... about 5cm tall / 2cm wide... with a combined total volume of LESS than 150ml, all where in their original packaging and brimming with bubble-wrap, since I didn't have any boxes small enough to put them all in. I'm not sure if they were flammable perfumes, but the rest of the requirements were adhered to. So if they were flammable, than I didn't realize.

I still don't see the problem with either removing the 'dangerous' perfume and resealing the package, then send it off as safe... or sending a letter to the recipient (since I forgot to put my address on there) to let them know the current situation, as the recipient could have then told me, and I could have contacted Royal Mail. So because of that, £100 worth of items was most possibly destroyed? It's one thing to destroy the dangerous items, which I understand, but WHY the need to destroy the ENTIRE package, when only one small portion of the contents is considered dangerous? Do they not stop to consider the effects that will have on the person who bought all the items, or the effect on the person who was supposed to receive them? They must have seen a Tatty Teddy, some chocolate and a Christmas card as dangerous as well.

I did post this via a Post Office yes... and they asked me what was in it, I started by saying "A plush, some chocolate, er..." and I guess they took that 'Er' as a pause then pointed to a chart and asked me if the package contains any of the following items... I looked and for the life of me could NOT see anything that said 'Perfume' or anything that resembled perfume... so I said "No, nothing like that" Not seeing perfume on the prohibited items chart lead me to believe that perfume was safe to send out.

Also... I still fail to understand how a big laptop battery poses LESS of a threat than 4 small bottles of perfume. Especially when it's still in the laptop. Have any of you actually SEEN a laptop battery explode? Watch a video on YouTube, it's both epic and brutal at the same time. Far, FAR more destructive than any perfume bottle could ever be. And can someone explain to me why it's OK to travel with perfume in a suitcase when you travel on holiday, but it's NOT OK to send it in a package? Sense? There is none.

And this statement on the Royal Mail site... "If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods" ..to me, that means they only dispose of the item that presents any danger... in this case, 4 small bottles of perfume. If that statement actually means they destroy the ENTIRE package, then it should say otherwise.

In fact you can send perfume as long as you follow the strict guidelines, restrictions and documentary requirements.
Perfumes and aftershaves
Including eau de parfum, eau de toilette and alcohol-free perfumes, but excluding non-flammable perfumed creams, gels, oils or lotions.

Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package. The perfume or aftershave must be within its original retail packaging and then placed in strong outer packaging. The inner packagings must be packed, secured or cushioned to prevent breakage or leakage of their contents into the outer packaging.

An ID8000 label must be applied ( see example ID8000 label Opens in new window ). The sender’s name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.

Whilst not wanting to correct the mighty TBT, Perfume is restricted in UK mail (subject to the labelling requirements mentioned) but TOTALLY BANNED in overseas mail. See http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... s-overseas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; under "Flammable Liquids":

Flammable liquids
This includes mixtures of liquids or liquids containing solids in solution or suspension which give off a flammable vapour. Any liquid with a closed cup flash point below 60.5° C is prohibited e.g. acetone, benzene, cleaning compounds, gasoline, lighter fuel, paint thinners and removers, petroleum and solvents, certain alcoholic beverages, perfumes and aftershaves, varnishes and enamels including nail varnish.

So it doesn't matter how much or how you packaged it. Sending it to the USA is not allowed. Fair enough the PO didn't push you on this but ultimately you are responsible for checking requirements (including the chart...) and ensuring compliance.

The Dangerous Goods leaflet (http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/ ... ly2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) explains as follows:

If you send prohibited goods or restricted goods (and you do not comply
with the relevant terms and conditions), we may deal with the goods as
we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned
(in whole or in part).

You may get the other stuff back, you may not. If you do not, you will not be eligible for compensation. You can try with Royal Mail, but it is extremely unlikely you will get anywhere.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Cheers Harry, good spot and thank you for making it a lot clearer.

My apologies for posting incorrect information as well.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

then pointed to a chart and asked me if the package contains any of the following items...

this one ?

On far right about half way down.

prohibited.jpg 1024×707 .png

click to enlarge

[TrueBlue1981]

Nope... it wasn't that one. The one that was in our Post Office was way less elaborate than that one. It appeared to have larger images of the items, and far less of them, as well. I've tried to find a picture of it, but nothing so far.

But yeah, the one I saw looked nothing like that.

[Snaggletooth]

Nope... it wasn't that one. The one that was in our Post Office was way less elaborate than that one. It appeared to have larger images of the items, and far less of them, as well. I've tried to find a picture of it, but nothing so far.

But yeah, the one I saw looked nothing like that.

Sorry to tell you this, but I work in a PO and I assure you that both versions of the laminate have a perfume / aftershave icon. Even if the clerk showed you the wrong side of the double sided version, that still lists perfume as "restricted" rather than "prohibited" and asks you to declare it to the clerk. All offices should also have a leaflet listing all this on their leaflet displays.

I understand you frustration about the laptop battery vs perfume issue, I wondered about that myself, but I can also understand the point about not introducing flammable liquids with low boiling points to aircraft. I do not know enough chemistry to begin to imagine what the effects of low pressure in the hold would do to the smelly stuff.