small packet vs. letter

[SpacePhoenix]

We are a multi-million pound outfit and use franking machine.

I don't know how much it would cost but if your sending a fair amount of stuff each day have you considered arranging a daily collection from your premises?

[sholland]

Thanks for replies. As stated earlier, I am a private user, sending on average 6 or 7 items a week. Some weeks zero, some 15 or so. This includes both UK and overseas.
The reference to work "multi million pound" is my employer, not myself! It was written at break time there.
sholland

[sholland]

Something been staring me in the face!
USING the official 2012 RM pricing list leaflet airmail section for the umpteenth time today, it shows printed headers:
Letters up to 100g
AND:
Letters, Small Packets and Printed Papers
over 100g These price bands start at 101g - 150g.
There is NO band for 100g or less!

So, any item within the physical size limits but weighing upto 100g can ONLY be a letter!
I don't think this can be disputed at any Post Office. Can it??

sholland

[adb2aber]

There *IS* a band for 100g or less.

http://www.royalmail.com/prices2012/#personal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Letters up to 100g
Weight (up to) / Europe / World Zones 1 & 2
Postcards / 87p / 87p
10g / 87p / 87p
20g / 87p / £1.28
40g / £1.28 / £1.90
60g / £1.66 / £2.38
80g / £1.91 / £2.89
100g / £2.21 / £3.30

Small Packets up to 100g
Weight (up to) / Europe / World Zones 1 & 2
100g / £2.70 / £3.30

[sholland]

OK, thanks, I stand corrected!
However, it still doesn't explain why I should be asked to pay small packet rate for merchandise that is less than 100g and that the "successors.....2001" document states that a "letter includes any communication in the nature of current and personal correspondence and also includes a packet transmitted at the letter rate of postage and containing goods or articles of merchandise". Especially as a "letter" can be up to 2kg and quite large, within stated limits.
MY addition of BOLD text use.
Unless of course different counter staff have been told different?
sholland

[martynj]

Any resolution on this topic? It is a real penalty for shipping small, light components to Europe to be forced into this "packet" category with the £2.70 minimum charge. Note that when it gets into the local post service there (e.g. Netherlands), the tariffs are entirely weight-based as you would expect, not on the nature of the contents.

Still confused....

[adb2aber]

Any resolution on this topic? It is a real penalty for shipping small, light components to Europe to be forced into this "packet" category with the £2.70 minimum charge. Note that when it gets into the local post service there (e.g. Netherlands), the tariffs are entirely weight-based as you would expect, not on the nature of the contents.

Still confused....

Highlighted the relevant part. You're not sending a letter, you're sending goods and trying to use some random junk letter as a claim that it isn't goods. Just pay the right rate which is small packet and your problems are solved.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Any resolution on this topic? It is a real penalty for shipping small, light components to Europe to be forced into this "packet" category with the £2.70 minimum charge. Note that when it gets into the local post service there (e.g. Netherlands), the tariffs are entirely weight-based as you would expect, not on the nature of the contents.

Still confused....

Highlighted the relevant part. You're not sending a letter, you're sending goods and trying to use some random junk letter as a claim that it isn't goods. Just pay the right rate which is small packet and your problems are solved.

but................

“letter” includes any communication in the nature of current and personal correspondence, and also includes a packet transmitted at the letter rate of postage and containing goods or articles of merchandise;

You can see why there is confusiion.

[FairyFoot]

Yet again I had 2 small packages with letters to post... and the sub postmaster wanted them to go small packet rate.... Anyway, asked for airmail letter rate... This was Monday, and one of the items has arrived in Austria today!

[newsubbie]

Unfortunately this has now all changed - all post offices received an update this morning (or will do tomorrow/ Monday). Royal Mail have changed the criteria for letter rate.

This is the exact wording which we have been sent (relating to items under 100g):

"If the item is a small packet then the small packet rate always applies. If the customer challenges this and asks for the cheaper letters rate then this is permitted as long as the small packet contains correspondence."
"If the item does not contain any enclosed correspondence, then the item cannot qualify for the cheaper letters rate and must be sent as a small packet".

Many of us are extremely unhappy at this, and have made our feelings known. All I can say is to put a personalised note inside, and insist it goes letter rate. If the Post Office branch you are using refuses, tell them to check Branch Focus 96 - International Pricing - Clarification of acceptance.

Hope this helps a little...

[FairyFoot]

Perhaps a bit early, but would a Christmas card be classed as correspondence? What about a birthday card?

[sholland]

Hello newsubbie, many thanks for all your time and input to the original thread - it is really appreciated. I have tried contacting customer services but still cannot get an answer. I am totally ignored. I am still waiting a reply to a posted complaint, and yes I do have a certificate of posting!
Next time I have a problem at a counter, I will try quoting what you gave. I printed it off. However, with one Post Office, I doubt they will listen. Most are ok with the letter rate at say 40g and containing a small item. But, one Post Office lady said she worked for the Post Office, and that a Royal Mail document I referred to (successors, postal etc.) was of no interest to her!
Anyway, with what you say, things are a little better defined - I hope!
I will wait and see.
Best wishes, sholland

[Snaggletooth]

Hi FairyFoot, I always get proof of posting, so posting in post box myself is not an option.
I have checked with our post lady here at work today. We are a multi-million pound outfit and use franking machine. She told me that ALL airmail less than 100g always goes at letter rate. There has not been a problem. This does confirm with what true blue terrier told me earlier. SO, I just need to find a way to convince some counter staff and their managers that I am right! Affixing my own postage stamps and getting proof of posting is not always possible. Besides, if the post office staff are getting it wrong, why should I have to anyway?
I suppose if Royal Mail customer service can agree with my stance in writing, I could take a copy every time I visit the post office. Somehow, I don't think proof from Royal Mail will be forthcoming. I hope I am wrong though!
Best wishes,
sholland

Unfortunately for you, an article in a recent issue of Branch Focus (news sheet for Post Offices) states the opposite, i.e. we should price by what the contents are. So a widget weighing 55g with no personal correspondence goes at the small packet price.

[sholland]

Hello Snaggletooth,
yes, but that is my employer!
On 1 Sept I received a letter to my question on this subject from customer services. This was after being ignored on the 3 previous occasions! I was being made not to ask sensitive questions about the subject! Basic contents of this letter were as the branch focus 96 article, stating that as long as letter was also included then it was ok at letter rate. No letter, then it must go as a small packet. It did also refer to the pricing document giving rates for both services, letter and packet less than 100g.
Anyway, I have a letter now that I can use to prove my case next time (if) there is a dispute. However, it does seem sly that a customer should have to "challenge" them, as stated in branch focus 96.
Thank you to starter of thread and everyone else for input.
Best wishes, sholland

[wheelyman]

i post alot of small items by airmail so this topic is of great interest to me!
iv'e changed the packaging of my items so that most are now less than 100g so will be cheaper to post by letter rate vs. small packet rate.
recently i had an item that was <100g and included a letter but was told it had to go small packet! the customs note stated letter inside plus what the goods were. i challenged the clerk about it having to go small packet rate saying i thought small packets cannot contain a letter! that prompted a discussion between the clerk and post master. anyway they agreed it could go letter rate. iv'e never had any letter rate mail returned to me.
i concur with above posts, no two post offices are the same! my local PO now insists on charging me small packet rate.