Come on Truth give us your thoughts

[BELIAL]

I would guess that the pro rata payment reflects the changes to duty structures that RM intend to introduce.
If the plan is for an evenish split pt/ft in delivery then pt duties will consist only of the outdoor element, therefore all D2D prep will be done by FT workers.
Like a lot of the stuff in this "agreement" it does depend on RM making huge time savings from sequenced mail.
I can't see any of this working. We save roughly 10 mins. prepping sequenced mail ;30% of our mail arrives unsorted , there just is not the spare capacity/time saving available to cope with this extra workload in my office.
Likewise with CDV's ,if they think they will save time on replenishment and conveyance they will be sadly disappointed, that time has already been saved via private car use and "creative" bag drops
All of which our union knows, but I'm not to sure if any local managers have come clean to their bosses ,so senior management might be in for the shock of their lives if these plans come to fruition

Good observation ,there probably is something in this: No use of cars means less flyers less, men coming in early etc.
shared vans or cars ,toilet break will mean a slowing down of the process, I can tell you know if everyone used vans in our office royal mail would not make the savings envisaged ,they rely on own car use.

Well that also means no lump sums......sucsessful deployment of revision.

Spot on. Who defines success ? Does it depend on projected savings being achieved?
Your revision may well be fully implemented but if it fails to produce the anticipated savings RM will shrug and say 'sorry folks this is not a success" so no available funds

[fishtank]

That's the problem with the entire agreement Belial.
Who defines any of it.
Certainly not the CWU.

[belle smith]

That's the problem with the entire agreement Belial.
Who defines any of it.
Certainly not the CWU.

I know i'm harping on about this, but the worst bit is defined 'no longer any delivery spans'.

[BELIAL]

Worrying isn't it, lots of agreements to agree on stuff after we vote . Just like 2007 with agreements to agree on the findings of joint working groups, can someone remind me how that turned out

[BELIAL]

That's the problem with the entire agreement Belial.
Who defines any of it.
Certainly not the CWU.

I know i'm harping on about this, but the worst bit is defined 'no longer any delivery spans'.

I find it hard to choose, spoilt for choice. Still, clutching at straws at least the 1hr reduction will mean that they only sack 39 people for every 40 originally earmarked for the chop

[night3uk]

Have I missed something

There is a brief at 11am where? and will we be able to see it?

And when will the agreement be released?

[stokes11eg]

P&M 2007 was accepted and that has been a disaster for membership levels.
I see nothing in this draft be it final or not that will reverse that trend.

75/25 FT split

agreed revision tools

Shorter working week

D2D into workload

All things that will protect jobs.

The agreement is massive but my fear is two things will swing the vote. Majority of those voting yes will do so to avoid more action and just look at lump sums whilst those voting no will be based on the delivery supplement.

Very few will vote on basis of reading whole document will they!?

Urge everyone to carefully read where these lump sums are coming from. OUT THEIR OWN POCKETS! This is not a free gift --and again this shorter working week. ONE HOUR
culled from existing time. you will not find yourself eith one continuous free hour per week

[Big Daz]

Even if they did alter the pro-rata status Daz it would still be a big NO vote for me, this agreement is more than just D2D's

Have faith that the amendments will alter your views,then again with CWU HQ track record of inspring faith in the masses

[Big Daz]

If you cannot see that there is 'anything' in the agreement for the membership then you really are not giving an honest appraisal.

1. Removed the 2years pay cealing on VR's

2. VR's open to more of the membership

3. vauge 'commitments' on performance standards.

4. Oppertunity for retraining for staff to become technisions for the new walk sequencing machines, apprentaships including mature staff.

enlighten me if i'm missing anything else.

lots of other things against Lovejoy not least abolishen of delivery spans! on that it's self is a no from me.

I would be with you on the 3.5 hr span if the industry was standing still but it is not - it is changing.

A 3.5 hr span will not protect jobs. the indoor element is skrinking - whether we like it or not and we have a choice - raise the span or become a PT industry.

This agreement does not give RM the green light to carry to push you even further. longer deliverys will be based on different methods. From what I have seen/heard of the CDV (shared vans) guidlines these are almost done.

Answer me this - do you honestly believe that delivering 3.5 hrs with a 16kg bag on your shoulder is easier than 4hrs15 in a shared van and using a HCT?

The span had to be lifted to protect FT jobs but it is about getting delivery members the right equipment - vans, HCTs, Electric HCTs etc

But IVe never had a bag on the shoulder delivery, only a bike, CWU cant sell park and loop to bike based delivey members in my D.O, not a bloddy chance!!!

[Big Daz]

the indoor element is skrinking - whether we like it or not and we have a choice - raise the span or become a PT industry.

Is it really? Then why are we working for 3-4 hours indoors now when it used to be 90 minutes and out for 7am? IPS takes longer than 90 minutes now. Is introducing walk sequencing machines going to reduce the indoor workload to the point where we have time to complete the inevitable longer deliveries?

I lost count of how many banners there were on tv the saying 'This Dispute is not about Pay'

It wasn't. But I bet you everything I have that nobody expected the CWU to come out with a pay cut for us.

IPS longer than 90 mins, those were the days

More like 70 mins at my D.O and our walk sortd mail has gone up, a simple switch from manual to automated WITHOUT any major drop in mail levels. Put the extra WS mail back on IPS and it would go straight back up to 90 mins.

[Big Daz]

My unwavering belief in this unions values has gone from 100% to 10% from sat morn to sun afternoon,and plumetted to 0% after reading lovejoys comments and answers this evening.

Lovejoy is just one CWU mbr expressing a view, unless you have soild evidence that is some big wig rather than somebody who has acess to info supplied from a big wig, I would suggest you treat him as a fellow rank and file mbr with with a alternative view point.

[baldrick]

Have I missed something

There is a brief at 11am where? and will we be able to see it?

And when will the agreement be released?

I think it's a Press Briefing (probably at the TUC or CWU HQ), so it should be on the TV midday news.
The full agreement, as amended, should be made public then.

[Ernie Shoe]

[quote="gb93"]Lovejoy you have just shown total contempt for the people who keep you in a comfortable non operational role with your comment about standing up to pathetic DOMS.

FACT IS in our office people are scared to stand upto the DOM because they FEAR for their jobs.
When a DOM stands up and openly admits he thinks their will be sackings before WSM come in June then they have a fair point.

You mention claiming for Overtime. No overtime is paid in our office.
People that cut off are taken off their jobs.

A lot of people went on strike because they were sick of the bullying / harrassment that goes on up and down the country.

This loose, wishy washy agreement WILL DO NOTHING TO STOP THIS!

Anyone who defends this "agreement" is either plain daft or lying out of their back teeth.

VOTE NO!

[gb93]

Big Daz, Lovejoy has already voted on the agreement,make of that what you will

(Only going off info recieved, apologies lovejoy if this is wrong correct me if it is)

[Ernie Shoe]

the indoor element is skrinking - whether we like it or not and we have a choice - raise the span or become a PT industry.

Is it really? Then why are we working for 3-4 hours indoors now when it used to be 90 minutes and out for 7am? IPS takes longer than 90 minutes now. Is introducing walk sequencing machines going to reduce the indoor workload to the point where we have time to complete the inevitable longer deliveries?

Good point last week on Weds, Thurs, Fri, Sat we were sorting from 6.30 - 9am.
People were leaving the office at 11am!