How does a non-driver avoid fatigue if on the weekdays they’re doing 2-3 days mail and countless parcels and then on Saturdays they’re out walking even more ????
Sounds like the union are blind to how big of an impact that will be because we all know that when there are duties to cover on Saturdays the non-drivers will be sent out for miles with 1st class and parcels on a lwt or hct.
There’s simply no way a manager keeps them indoors when that inevitably happens.
You’ll be forcing them out of the door through sheer exhaustion.
There is a simple solution and that’s to drive , you want the right to not drive despite having a license and have the front to moan about fatigue.
Haven’t you have enough of getting leathered on this subject over the last few days?
You’re a bitter man, I’ve known a few like you in my time in this job.
You know im right, for a good few thousand license holders the fatigue issues you talk about non drivers suffering can be easily resolved but for some strange reason them driving for Royal Mail is non negotiable.
No you’re not and I’ve explained why more than once.
No one should have to put up with having to work themselves into the ground which as has also been explained, will be unavoidable for non-drivers.
They have the right to express those concerns to their union representatives who should be listening to them.
They also have a right to stick to the terms of their contracts.
I know people that passed their driving test 30 years ago and hasn’t driven since and doesn’t drive to or from work, you’re telling them that outside of the contract they signed that they should have to drive or lose their job.
I wonder if you’ll have the same attitude if the employer tells you you’re now working Sundays.
Sounds bad then you realize you just have to work your hours, if you can't complete then bring it back. Let managers worry about mail brought back, it's not your problem it's theirs that's why they get paid more money. Work your hours then go home.
It's not a matter of what you can't complete.
It's a matter of what you will be expected to do inside your working hours that is causing fatigue in the pilot offices. 5hr+ of double and triple mail every day with no let up, no quiet Monday or Tuesday just relentlessly high call rates every day until retirement, especially for non drivers.
I think a lot of people on this thread have failed to realise that the plan to ensure that there is scope to manage this extra workload is to lengthen each day and have you out on delivery for as much of your working day as possible.
It sounds bad because it is bad.
Do what you can physically do in the hours you have, but never ever push it or get worried about not completing the delivery. Bring it back if you are going over tell them before you go out that you won't complete. If you have double or triple mail then guess what, you need to make smaller bundles, less deliveries in each bundle to manage the weight, if it takes longer then guess what more mail has to come back. After that it's their problem. Like I said do your best but never ever go that extra mile for RM as they literally don't give a stuff about you or your health. Work the hours you agreed with RM in your contract and then go home and relax.
How does a non-driver avoid fatigue if on the weekdays they’re doing 2-3 days mail and countless parcels and then on Saturdays they’re out walking even more ????
Sounds like the union are blind to how big of an impact that will be because we all know that when there are duties to cover on Saturdays the non-drivers will be sent out for miles with 1st class and parcels on a lwt or hct.
There’s simply no way a manager keeps them indoors when that inevitably happens.
You’ll be forcing them out of the door through sheer exhaustion.
There is a simple solution and that’s to drive , you want the right to not drive despite having a license and have the front to moan about fatigue.
Haven’t you have enough of getting leathered on this subject over the last few days?
You’re a bitter man, I’ve known a few like you in my time in this job.
You know im right, for a good few thousand license holders the fatigue issues you talk about non drivers suffering can be easily resolved but for some strange reason them driving for Royal Mail is non negotiable.
No you’re not and I’ve explained why more than once.
No one should have to put up with having to work themselves into the ground which as has also been explained, will be unavoidable for non-drivers.
They have the right to express those concerns to their union representatives who should be listening to them.
They also have a right to stick to the terms of their contracts.
I know people that passed their driving test 30 years ago and hasn’t driven since and doesn’t drive to or from work, you’re telling them that outside of the contract they signed that they should have to drive or lose their job.
I wonder if you’ll have the same attitude if the employer tells you you’re now working Sundays.
Don’t want to hear you moaning about non drivers that have a license and choose not to drive suffering from fatigue when they have an option to fix it , non license holders are a different case.
Sounds bad then you realize you just have to work your hours, if you can't complete then bring it back. Let managers worry about mail brought back, it's not your problem it's theirs that's why they get paid more money. Work your hours then go home.
It's not a matter of what you can't complete.
It's a matter of what you will be expected to do inside your working hours that is causing fatigue in the pilot offices. 5hr+ of double and triple mail every day with no let up, no quiet Monday or Tuesday just relentlessly high call rates every day until retirement, especially for non drivers.
I think a lot of people on this thread have failed to realise that the plan to ensure that there is scope to manage this extra workload is to lengthen each day and have you out on delivery for as much of your working day as possible.
It sounds bad because it is bad.
That leads back to the question of what happens if part timers on 30 hours or lesser weekly contracts dont want to increase their hours? Im guessing the plan is, with a lot less frames needing prepped daily, for the vans to be loaded for them coming in so there will be next to no indoor work for them at all?
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
That leads back to the question of what happens if part timers on 30 hours or lesser weekly contracts dont want to increase their hours? Im guessing the plan is, with a lot less frames needing prepped daily, for the vans to be loaded for them coming in so there will be next to no indoor work for them at all?
[/quote]
The union were banking on part timers going full time to aliviate the need for double prepping. None of the part timers at ours want to increase their hours.
That leads back to the question of what happens if part timers on 30 hours or lesser weekly contracts dont want to increase their hours? Im guessing the plan is, with a lot less frames needing prepped daily, for the vans to be loaded for them coming in so there will be next to no indoor work for them at all?
[/quote]
The union were banking on part timers going full time to aliviate the need for double prepping. None of the part timers at ours want to increase their hours.
[/quote]
And that idea, of having zero prep time because the walk is ready to go out when you arrive, is horrendous. It means you would be out delivering for a possible 9 hours, dependent upon the shift pattern chosen by the office.
They do that already with parcel routes. Doing it with letters is a hideous idea.
’You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new.’
That leads back to the question of what happens if part timers on 30 hours or lesser weekly contracts dont want to increase their hours? Im guessing the plan is, with a lot less frames needing prepped daily, for the vans to be loaded for them coming in so there will be next to no indoor work for them at all?
The union were banking on part timers going full time to aliviate the need for double prepping. None of the part timers at ours want to increase their hours.
[/quote]
And that idea, of having zero prep time because the walk is ready to go out when you arrive, is horrendous. It means you would be out delivering for a possible 9 hours, dependent upon the shift pattern chosen by the office.
They do that already with parcel routes. Doing it with letters is a hideous idea.
[/quote]
Well it wouldnt be 9 hours for 30- part timers unless they are working 3 days a week instead of 5
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
That leads back to the question of what happens if part timers on 30 hours or lesser weekly contracts dont want to increase their hours? Im guessing the plan is, with a lot less frames needing prepped daily, for the vans to be loaded for them coming in so there will be next to no indoor work for them at all?
The union were banking on part timers going full time to aliviate the need for double prepping. None of the part timers at ours want to increase their hours.
And that idea, of having zero prep time because the walk is ready to go out when you arrive, is horrendous. It means you would be out delivering for a possible 9 hours, dependent upon the shift pattern chosen by the office.
They do that already with parcel routes. Doing it with letters is a hideous idea.
[/quote]
Well it wouldnt be 9 hours for 30- part timers unless they are working 3 days a week instead of 5
[/quote]
That’s what they would shift to. Everyone in the office would move to the same shift pattern.
’You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new.’
How does a non-driver avoid fatigue if on the weekdays they’re doing 2-3 days mail and countless parcels and then on Saturdays they’re out walking even more ????
Sounds like the union are blind to how big of an impact that will be because we all know that when there are duties to cover on Saturdays the non-drivers will be sent out for miles with 1st class and parcels on a lwt or hct.
There’s simply no way a manager keeps them indoors when that inevitably happens.
You’ll be forcing them out of the door through sheer exhaustion.
There is a simple solution and that’s to drive , you want the right to not drive despite having a license and have the front to moan about fatigue.
Haven’t you have enough of getting leathered on this subject over the last few days?
You’re a bitter man, I’ve known a few like you in my time in this job.
You know im right, for a good few thousand license holders the fatigue issues you talk about non drivers suffering can be easily resolved but for some strange reason them driving for Royal Mail is non negotiable.
No you’re not and I’ve explained why more than once.
No one should have to put up with having to work themselves into the ground which as has also been explained, will be unavoidable for non-drivers.
They have the right to express those concerns to their union representatives who should be listening to them.
They also have a right to stick to the terms of their contracts.
I know people that passed their driving test 30 years ago and hasn’t driven since and doesn’t drive to or from work, you’re telling them that outside of the contract they signed that they should have to drive or lose their job.
I wonder if you’ll have the same attitude if the employer tells you you’re now working Sundays.
Don’t want to hear you moaning about non drivers that have a license and choose not to drive suffering from fatigue when they have an option to fix it , non license holders are a different case.
Don’t want to hear you moaning about non drivers that have a license and choose not to drive suffering from fatigue when they have an option to fix it , non license holders are a different case.
Since only one in every three will do the parcels and first class on any given day (except Saturdays) there is a limited number of opportunities to mitigate fatigue so the more drivers there are the more competition there will be for these duties, if you factor in the inevitable fact that some of these duties will end up ring fenced for let's just say our less able members it would probably be smart if you are a driver NOT to encourage more sharks in the sea.
Don’t want to hear you moaning about non drivers that have a license and choose not to drive suffering from fatigue when they have an option to fix it , non license holders are a different case.
Since only one in every three will do the parcels and first class on any given day (except Saturdays) there is a limited number of opportunities to mitigate fatigue so the more drivers there are the more competition there will be for these duties, if you factor in the inevitable fact that some of these duties will end up ring fenced for let's just say our less able members it would probably be smart if you are a driver NOT to encourage more sharks in the sea.
That is kind of what I was getting at in a previous post saying that it is simply not just a problem for non driving staff - fatigue will be an issue for whoever lands on the permanent walking sides of the 4 duties into 3. Having low to medium seniority and driving for RM doesn't guarantee you an escape from fatigue in this system. If anything , the way things are looking this group of staff are likely to be the ones told to suck it up or leave, as once the mail starts piling up, non driving staff will be offered a Mon-Fri (instead of the pie in the sky indoor work/van assist), and many in ours who often get landed with 2-3 days worth of mail currently have said they would jump at it.
I hate to say it but this is the way I thought the driver - non - driver discussion would go. RM and the CWU need to get everyone informed early on as to what a non driver will be doing during their working day
RM and the CWU need to get everyone informed early on as to what a non driver will be doing during their working day
As the past few weeks have shown, no-one knows what's going on so how can they inform people? I have to wonder how the pilots can prove anything when there seems to be no methodology.
RM and the CWU need to get everyone informed early on as to what a non driver will be doing during their working day
As the past few weeks have shown, no-one knows what's going on so how can they inform people? I have to wonder how the pilots can prove anything when there seems to be no methodology.
They are basically seeing how it pans out God help us
I hate to say it but this is the way I thought the driver - non - driver discussion would go. RM and the CWU need to get everyone informed early on as to what a non driver will be doing during their working day