Have to vote No

[Woody Guthrie]

How will there be less union involvement if its a no?

The agreement restores all that and gives the union and therefore the membership some input in the inevitable changes that are coming our way.

Lol. Course it does.

It does on paper.
On paper is all you get from any agreement so unless you plan to be in dispute until retirement day at some point you're going to have to suck on that particular lemon.

[nightcrawler]

I finally voted today (online)…I voted NO
Just for context - this is the first time in over 30 years as a Postie and union member that I’ve gone against the union’s recommendation.

[daveyeff]

How will there be less union involvement if its a no?

Where you been for the last 12 months davey?

A huge part of this dispute has been about trying to remove union influence in the workplace, they've tore up agreements, stopped release, dismissed reps, given notice on check off and employed union busting consultants from the US.

The agreement restores all that and gives the union and therefore the membership some input in the inevitable changes that are coming our way.

A no vote means we are back to square one, in fact I would say square minus one because in their eyes Royal Mail have just wasted 12 months trying to reach an agreement and they won't and can't waste any more time.

In my humble opinion if this deal is rejected those on the board who never really wanted a deal in the first place will take control, they'll say the "doves" have had their chance and failed so it's time to go down a different path.

It is not going to be pretty...

so what the hell we paying them for then? if they are going to sit back and let them then there is no point in paying subs for them.

[daveyeff]

they just announced to us today they want another 100 hours out the office. this is on top of the 10 duties we have just lost through redundancy, and on top of the ridiculous revisions they've just put in. stuff getting left in every single day and they are STILL taking more out. makes the joint statement absolutely laughable. if its a no, then our heirarchy need to start earning their money.

[Woody Guthrie]

so what the hell we paying them for then? if they are going to sit back and let them then there is no point in paying subs for them.

What do you propose they do davey?
Bang the table louder?

The union has only one weapon.
That's us.
They can only bargain as far as that will take them.

At the moment the members are too busy overreacting like children, screaming about sellouts and threatening to leave to be much use in a fight. It's actually quite sad to see.

The backlash on social media has completely undermined the union and destroyed any confidence the leadership may have had that the members would stand behind them.

It's partly the fault of the agreement, partly the fault of how bitter the dispute has been but the toxic side of the membership has to also shoulder some of the blame.

It's possible to reject this agreement and still support the union and trade union values, it's possible to understand how difficult the negotiations have been but still feel the agreement is unacceptable, it's possible to understand that voting no is a huge risk and may end badly and this may be the best agreement we'll get but still feel compelled to vote no.

These would all be reasonable responses which I could respect but too many of the membership felt it better to just tear into the union on a personal level, threaten to leave and show the membership up for being divided.

That has consequences, it shows weakness not only to our leaders but also to the other side.

[daveyeff]

the union have undermined themselves. it would have been a lot less toxic if the leadership had upped their game. 1 and 2 days just does not cut it. they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took. their inaction has cost us our pride and it has humiliated the membership. gaffers are laughing at us. as Terry said ''i would rather smash this to bits than hand it over to them''......sadly thats exactly what Ward and Fury have done. handed it over. all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out. but pussycat Dave and his kitten pissed what we had up the wall.

[Woody Guthrie]

they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took.

What it took was Royal Mail handing over accurate records of who was working in which function and when.

Likely?

all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out.

As someone who ran the picket line in a large unit and was first there and last to leave I can tell you from my experience this is bullshit.

Those calling for all out strikes largely fell into two categories, the male over 50s, kids grown up, mortgage as good as paid off, wife earning better money and male under 25 still living with their parents.

It's easy to see why those groups would be up for it.

The rest were terrified of the prospect and facing the unpalatable dilemma of being forced by financial pressure to cross a picket line.

That's what your all out would have achieved davey, the strike would have crumbled within a week.

[Nickvilla20]

An all out strike was never an option and would have had people going back in after day 3 and the company knew this.

90% of my office couldn’t have afforded to do it we have a married couple and one of them had to cross the picket line. There was also a lack of and kind of strike/hardship fund.

We’ve played all our cards we have nothing else to play. As usual the house wins.

[nuisance]

they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took.

What it took was Royal Mail handing over accurate records of who was working in which function and when.

Likely?

all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out.

As someone who ran the picket line in a large unit and was first there and last to leave I can tell you from my experience this is bullshit.

Those calling for all out strikes largely fell into two categories, the male over 50s, kids grown up, mortgage as good as paid off, wife earning better money and male under 25 still living with their parents.

It's easy to see why those groups would be up for it.

The rest were terrified of the prospect and facing the unpalatable dilemma of being forced by financial pressure to cross a picket line.

That's what your all out would have achieved davey, the strike would have crumbled within a week.

IME this is BS. Terrified my arse. Either you're straight up lying again or there are some major regional differences. There was nothing but frustration and bemusement at what the union was doing around here. Everyone was solid and things only calmed down and fizzled out when the union orchestrated it by agreeing the stupid agreement, then doing nothing but stall this ballot for weeks.

We should have all gone out with Glasgow. The original strikes were nothing more than a bit of a PITA. If the postal service came to a total long term halt the government would have to act on the issue. The membership are not weak or terrified, you are very out of touch.

[Frankie15]

[Frankie15]

they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took.

What it took was Royal Mail handing over accurate records of who was working in which function and when.

Likely?

all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out.

As someone who ran the picket line in a large unit and was first there and last to leave I can tell you from my experience this is bullshit.

Those calling for all out strikes largely fell into two categories, the male over 50s, kids grown up, mortgage as good as paid off, wife earning better money and male under 25 still living with their parents.

It's easy to see why those groups would be up for it.

The rest were terrified of the prospect and facing the unpalatable dilemma of being forced by financial pressure to cross a picket line.

That's what your all out would have achieved davey, the strike would have crumbled within a week.

[aiden01]

the union have undermined themselves. it would have been a lot less toxic if the leadership had upped their game. 1 and 2 days just does not cut it. they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took. their inaction has cost us our pride and it has humiliated the membership. gaffers are laughing at us. as Terry said ''i would rather smash this to bits than hand it over to them''......sadly thats exactly what Ward and Fury have done. handed it over. all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out. but pussycat Dave and his kitten pissed what we had up the wall.

Most of who expected it to be all out certainly have not heard one person say it (except a few on here).an they are the usual keyboard warriors.

[daveyeff]

Personally I think that's Bullshit The union got us all fired up and thousands were up for it....'I'm with my union' etc, etc, they told us if we accepted RMs proposals then we were endorsing later starts,,,,,,then we had 'win the ballot, win the dispute' we were out for 18 days solid in 96, I and many others were paying mortgages....but we stayed out. This time, Terry's out the picture and the leadership sh***s its pants. They were saying RM wanted this and that but we got this we got that.....we got f**k all. Truth is RM knew they wouldn't get 3 hours later starts. But they knew they would get it knocked down which was their real goal, next time they will come for 1hour 15 mins and expect to get knocked down to 45mins. Union will claim that's a victory as well. Then they will come for more sick pay terms and further attack the attendance procedure. As for them being skint,,,,don't even go there.

[LouBarlow]

the union have undermined themselves. it would have been a lot less toxic if the leadership had upped their game. 1 and 2 days just does not cut it. they should have and COULD have done the rolling strikes proper and legal, whatever it took. their inaction has cost us our pride and it has humiliated the membership. gaffers are laughing at us. as Terry said ''i would rather smash this to bits than hand it over to them''......sadly thats exactly what Ward and Fury have done. handed it over. all out would have focused their minds. 96% of us voted to come out and most of us expected it to be all out. but pussycat Dave and his kitten pissed what we had up the wall.

Most of who expected it to be all out certainly have not heard one person say it (except a few on here).an they are the usual keyboard warriors.

Agreed. They’ve probably voted yes to the agreement. All mouth.

[daveyeff]

Bollox that.....I heard it plenty