It is what every union does

[Caesar]

Thanks for the above post Martin and thanks for your contribution on this site.
It seems that some people have lost trust in both sides of this dispute but where does that leave us.
Individually we are not going to gain anything so I don’t see any other option than to put my hope (if not trust) into the Union.
Personally, I think the CWU’s biggest mistake was to hype members expectations, that doesn’t mean they are untrustworthy, they needed support to limit the planned changes but the writing was on the wall years ago and it was only a matter of time for these changes to be implemented.

[heraldmoth]

Also are they simply relying on a drop off in work to take us from 39 hours to 35?

It won't happen but the managers will still try to bully things through.

Exactly you will have a 39 hour duty come the summer and it’s going to be on you to get it down to 35…..I’m guessing the 39 in the winter will be more like 40+ to

[Nickvilla20]

Frankly I don't trust RM to not bring in all that crap by EA a few months down the line. I suspect that there's a good few members on here that also don't trust RM to not bring all the crap in by EA a few months down the line

If there aren’t big leadership changes in the near future at top of the company then I don’t see them been very serious about honouring this agreement.

Simon,Ricky,Keith ect all need to be moved on at the first opportunity.

[TopperGas]

"The union are misleading people by saying you get SSP for first 2 days. In reality, you don't get any pay for the first few days, as SSP doesn't pay out after a few days. But the union are making people think you get some sort of payment in the first couple days, as they don't know how SSP works."

Have the CWU &/or RM ever given a definitive answer on this point? If not can Martin Walsh clarify this point once and for all?

[Shadedpostie]

I'm sorry, but if you thought that it was inevitable that Royal Mail was going to get some of these changes through, then why did you's not just do a ballot for both instead of the initial pay and change? You ain't even the only union representative that's suddenly turned around and said change was always going to be on the table narrative. And it's honestly pissing a lot of members off, me included. You ran with a campaign with a "no strings pay rise", so think it's completely out of order for you guys to turn around and go "well it could be worse" or "change was always going to happen".

[chrisj]

I understand that a yes vote may be the best option, and understand all your points. You don't deserve the abuse. But the reason everyone is so mad is because it was the union itself who promised the better deal.

I think there are two reasons why - firstly, the union may well have not been aware how dire the finances were early on in the dispute and have had to taper back on issues. Secondly, they needed support for strike action - had they not been so demanding at the beginning we would likely have not even received the deal we have presented to us now. Without the support we showed early on, we might currently be even worse off.

* What is the Union's excuse for not knowing about the financial situation when they were invited earlier on to come and look at the books... And it was so obvious that the financial situation after COVID and high energy prices, high inflation and reduced purchasing power were all recipes for a dire trading situation for a Courier industry. The CWU were too amateurish and up into the conspiracy theories that they could not see the woods from the trees

You are giving them too many excuses. Like I said previously, Martin appears to be different and more clued up than those above him

His more frequent postings ate obviously there to persuade people but it is winding some people up because he was part of the Union hierarchy that promised so much and delivered very little while losing members pay and not even getting much pay increase.

Royal Mail even did us a favour by imposing a 2% pay rise when things were really tough. Now the Union are counting the imposed pay rise as part of a 10% pay deal over 3 years... Great!

[Ddarko85]

My issue is that we seem to have given up a lot for very little. The USO is going to fail massively in my office. 22 walks coming out, an extra 3 loops to do. We’ll end up ‘flipping’ a loop each day. When did this become the norm?

Also ‘family friendly provisions’ for employees with kids - that’s so vague, doesn’t fill me with confidence.

Royal Mail seem to remove work from other areas and stick it on to us in delivery. I personally think we’re getting proper shafted (delivery).

Those extra miles from extra loops are going to mount each day/week. And for the older guys, that’s them going on the sick sooner surely.

This automatic attempt to re deliver parcels is not going well. People bringing 30-40 tracked back a day and it’s not even super busy yet - imagine Christmas.

I think people are annoyed based on a lot of things:

The bonus’s and dividends paid out prior
Working through Covid - actually putting our health on the line for this company
The union promising a lot prior to the vote ‘win the ballot - win the dispute’.

This doesn’t feel like a win at all. Compromise of course, we know we don’t get everything we want from these disputes but this just feels like a massive capitulation.

[LouBarlow]

* What is the Union's excuse for not knowing about the financial situation when they were invited earlier on to come and look at the books... And it was so obvious that the financial situation after COVID and high energy prices, high inflation and reduced purchasing power were all recipes for a dire trading situation for a Courier industry. The CWU were too amateurish and up into the conspiracy theories that they could not see the woods from the trees

You are giving them too many excuses.

I’m not saying they have performed perfectly at all. I’ve long since said we are voting on which we think is the best of two bad scenarios, but for me, supporting the union is always going to be the better option which is why I will be voting yes. Honestly, we are in for a s**t show going forward either way, I just would prefer it be with more money in my pocket and at least some binding agreement on paper.

[freespeech]

Martin thanks for your help and personal views but if we accept this deal we have already given away our terms and conditions in a year or 2 they will come for the rest of our terms we will have nothing left we all understand the consequences of a no vote with regards to 10 000 compulsory redundancies i think that 20 000 or 30 000 people want to leave the business so would probably have been voluntary also with the removal of the fittings we will be out up to an hour earlier we could end up with 6hour walks and finally with agreeing to work 39 hours in the winter where is the cwu 35 hour week they promised us we are going from 35 to 39 hours a no from me sorry mate

How do you think voting no will impact on your T&Cs? You will certainly be better off with an agreement in place and union support going forward. I don’t understand how people can think otherwise.

Spot on......even in simple terms no agreement means no protections for complsory redundancy.

[dazzler123]

This board are pure poison. If it's common knowledge they are happy to bully, stress and grind current staff to dust, why would those staff care what happens to the company?

[Judgee]

My biggest bug bear in this agreement is the attack on sick pay.

Sure costs need to come down but as always the management are hell bent on blaming the work force and accusing them of abusing the system when in reality it is clear who is to blame and what can easily be done about it!

Give people a reasonable work load! We are human beings not donkeys. Of course sickness will go up when you are pushing people to their limits. Instead of attacking sick pay they should be reassessing their failing revisions brought in by EZ and adjusting the workload to something less damaging to peoples health.... but they won't, especially if the union fail to push them on this point!

[Valentina@1]

Martin Walsh is a sell out,lets just say things how they are,any delivery staff that vote yes to this crap needs head testing.
I’ve been in job 28 years and never seen an agreement take around 5 weeks just to get ballot papers,it’s almost like an election campaign,this stinks!!!

[hans solo]

Martin thanks for your help and personal views but if we accept this deal we have already given away our terms and conditions in a year or 2 they will come for the rest of our terms we will have nothing left we all understand the consequences of a no vote with regards to 10 000 compulsory redundancies i think that 20 000 or 30 000 people want to leave the business so would probably have been voluntary also with the removal of the fittings we will be out up to an hour earlier we could end up with 6hour walks and finally with agreeing to work 39 hours in the winter where is the cwu 35 hour week they promised us we are going from 35 to 39 hours a no from me sorry mate

How do you think voting no will impact on your T&Cs? You will certainly be better off with an agreement in place and union support going forward. I don’t understand how people can think otherwise.

The same as the last agreement
They will just manufacture reasons to further their agenda
And CWU know this
It’s a big massive NO from me and many many of my colleagues
I stood at the Scottish parliament on a freezing day to support the defence of our t&cs
I also listened to pec who addressed our office with he same message
This is a u-turn from CWU
There is no threat of administration
And if there was I don’t see it as a big problem
For us foot soldiers
There is for shareholders and stake holders though

[LouBarlow]

The same as the last agreement
They will just manufacture reasons to further their agenda
And CWU know this
It’s a big massive NO from me and many many of my colleagues
I stood at the Scottish parliament on a freezing day to support the defence of our t&cs
I also listened to pec who addressed our office with he same message
This is a u-turn from CWU
There is no threat of administration
And if there was I don’t see it as a big problem
For us foot soldiers
There is for shareholders and stake holders though

How does voting no change any of this?

[Valentina@1]

And why the silence from company?…Royal Mail clearly been told by CWU to back off & will attempt sell this to the mugs on delivery,everyone I speak to is angry & voting no,we’d rather die standing up than live on our knees