Change-I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.

[k979aaa]

Unagreed tech hey so IF you don't use it can they fire you? as we have no agreement on PDAs or trackers on vans.

[DirtyHarry]

When all's said and done, we the members are losers in this dispute.

What improvements to our hellish working lives did we win?

None, that I can see.

I can see, however, this job from hell, becoming even more hellish.

Go on, Thompson......Prove me wrong.

[koolishy67]

Vote NO negotiate till Xmas without 6% payrise and £500

[chickenwittle]

I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.


we have changed the companies position on all the following

1. Up to 3 hour later starts. 17:00 last letter delivery.
2. Processing and network duties moving up to 3 hours later.
3. Compulsory Sundays paid at Monday to Saturday rates.
4. Owner drivers in Royal Mail pick up the growth in parcels.
5. Annualised hours linked to scan in scan out deciding your pay.
6. Flexi bank so you don’t have a finish time you have to complete. Additionally if you finished earlier determine by your PDA/ Siso then they could determine when that hours would be worked.
7. 5 Mail Centre closures.
8. Their best and final agreement only gave a no compulsory redundancies agreement until March 2023.
9. The future of Parcelforce would have been unlimited owner drivers.
10. All legacy allowances to be removed including RRIS which for over 30 thousand members would be a pay cut ranging from £6 to £35 per week.
11. Pay was dependent on the change being introduced. The lump sum was also dependent on change being introduced.
12 individual performance standards linked to PDA OA and 100 BSi indoors. Replacement of the NCI procedure to allow individuals to be sacked for poor performance.
13. No more disagreements or negotiations at local level on revisions etc.
14. New entrants not part of the collective bargaining and a stand alone workforce.


Yes the agreement is not perfect but anyone who believes Royal Mail are going to suddenly say there will be no change will have to think again.

Martin if your best selling point is it could have been worse , then that’s fair enough but it still doesn’t make it an acceptable agreement for many.

[CRIBMAD]

Must do better Martin. We see through you and we see through Ward. Sold us all out once Royal Mail agreed for release time for the Reps and that union subs will still be taken directly out of wages. Once that hurdle was overcome yous dashed for the first deal Royal Mail would
give without a second thought for the members currently struggling day in day out. How you and the union hierarchy
sleep at night is beyond me. Hang your head in shame. I’m still voting no, we can do better than this and deserve better than this.

[CRIBMAD]

When all's said and done, we the members are losers in this dispute.

What improvements to our hellish working lives did we win?

None, that I can see.

I can see, however, this job from hell, becoming even more hellish.

Go on, Thompson......Prove me wrong.

[daveyeff]

I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.


we have changed the companies position on all the following

1. Up to 3 hour later starts. 17:00 last letter delivery.
2. Processing and network duties moving up to 3 hours later.
3. Compulsory Sundays paid at Monday to Saturday rates.
4. Owner drivers in Royal Mail pick up the growth in parcels.
5. Annualised hours linked to scan in scan out deciding your pay.
6. Flexi bank so you don’t have a finish time you have to complete. Additionally if you finished earlier determine by your PDA/ Siso then they could determine when that hours would be worked.
7. 5 Mail Centre closures.
8. Their best and final agreement only gave a no compulsory redundancies agreement until March 2023.
9. The future of Parcelforce would have been unlimited owner drivers.
10. All legacy allowances to be removed including RRIS which for over 30 thousand members would be a pay cut ranging from £6 to £35 per week.
11. Pay was dependent on the change being introduced. The lump sum was also dependent on change being introduced.
12 individual performance standards linked to PDA OA and 100 BSi indoors. Replacement of the NCI procedure to allow individuals to be sacked for poor performance.
13. No more disagreements or negotiations at local level on revisions etc.
14. New entrants not part of the collective bargaining and a stand alone workforce.


Yes the agreement is not perfect but anyone who believes Royal Mail are going to suddenly say there will be no change will have to think again.

Some understand that…
Personally I think one of the main reasons people are objecting is how the CWU rallied everyone together with statements like “10% and NO strings!” And “win the ballot win the Dispute!”

This is far from ‘NO strings’ and a lot don’t see this deal as a ‘win’.

A lot of people said that RM won’t budge much even way back in august so it’s not a deal that is that surprising to that group. But the others feel they have been sold down the river.

I’m hoping the Q&A with Ward and Co will convince others this is the best deal. Otherwise who knows what RM will do.

i would like to ask you personally in front of everyone on here, are you union or anti. i personally am pro-union thru and thru. but i also think we have been sold down the river...... next time they will come for 2 hours and no paid breaks and they will get 1 hour and the first 20 mins. union will say.... ''but they wanted 2hrs but we only gave them 1. and we only gave tjhem the first 20 mins of the break.....next time etc....just use your imagination.....its not hard to see where this is going.

[RTP]

It was a negotiating tactic from RM as you already know

This agreement will get them much of what they really wanted from this round and they will be back for more later

But what will voting NO achieve? It’s not going to stop RMs agenda. It could even speed it up.

In the land of far far away all the to CWU top brass are voted out to be replaced by....err ....nobody.

The remaiming CWU members await the knights of far far away to come riding over the hills on their white stallions.

And then they wake up and ....

[sweepster70]

Mr Walsh, I have no say in how the vote transpires after leaving the CWU during this dispute. The turning point for me was the inept leadership in the CWU. The ‘ win the ballot win the dispute ‘ the ‘ I'm with the Union ‘ likes on live sessions (FB) and holding Vote Yes placards up at the parliamentary committee. You are as a collective amateurish and childish and no match to the corporate shitesters of Simon Thompson and Co.
My only saving grace is carrying on ‘quietly quitting’ for as long as possible. When I finally get conducted for performance, I will then move on to another job but until then I will not destroy my body for this company.
So if it’s a yes vote or no vote, I’m determined not to do anymore work with in my allotted hours.

Hoping to save a few quid are we, at the expense of others?
One word springs to mind "Disgrace"
The more people we have in the Union, the better chance we have.

[aiden01]

Mr Walsh, I have no say in how the vote transpires after leaving the CWU during this dispute. The turning point for me was the inept leadership in the CWU. The ‘ win the ballot win the dispute ‘ the ‘ I'm with the Union ‘ likes on live sessions (FB) and holding Vote Yes placards up at the parliamentary committee. You are as a collective amateurish and childish and no match to the corporate shitesters of Simon Thompson and Co.
My only saving grace is carrying on ‘quietly quitting’ for as long as possible. When I finally get conducted for performance, I will then move on to another job but until then I will not destroy my body for this company.
So if it’s a yes vote or no vote, I’m determined not to do anymore work with in my allotted hours.

Sad you can rant but without cwu we are gone.but without having a vote you have lost all your say.

[POP2022]

Martin, I am fed up of you trying to sell this deal as it’s a lot better than what ROYAL MAIL wanted.

In every aspect of the deal we are worse off than we are now. Can you tell us how we are better off with this deal than we are currently?

2% for 2022/23 is a real terms pay cut of around 10-15%

6% for 23/24 is probably going to be lower than inflation

2% for 24/25 is ridiculous to agree to now, given the state of the economy. What if inflation goes to 20%? I guarantee it will be higher than this.

Sick pay - worse
Hours - worse
Flexability - worse

OUR union have been so weak, the scum at the top of the organisation should be fought every step of the way for destroying the service that most of us used to be proud of. We have houses that aren’t receiving 1 delivery some weeks.

You and a lot at the top need to stand up and be counted, at the moment you are a hell of a lot closer to management than you are to us!

[Grads75]

There is a complete lack of trust with R.M. Back in January the CWU said we won't start negotiations until all unagreed revision activity ceases. R.M said "Ok find. We'll pause it." > then carried on doing it.
Then the infamous lies in parliament.

There are too many breaches in T&C which were before seen as untouchable. Namely sick pay, IHR, PDA actuals. These breaches can be seen as the slippery slope - erosion by stealth.

Then, my particular concern > In an office of 70 there are 2 off with knee ops and another with a shoulder op and 2 more on light duties with joint issues. There is an equation here between 1. time outside 2. mail volume 3. distance walked.
If time outside stays the same or increase, and mail volume stays the same or decreases - then inevitably distance walked MUST increase. (or we're walking much slower or sitting somewhere). Joint issues are going to go through the roof and yet IHR and sick pay are being attacked. Very cynical of R.M and no self respecting union would allow it.

totally agree

[X_hamster]

Martin, I am fed up of you trying to sell this deal as it’s a lot better than what ROYAL MAIL wanted.

In every aspect of the deal we are worse off than we are now. Can you tell us how we are better off with this deal than we are currently?

2% for 2022/23 is a real terms pay cut of around 10-15%

6% for 23/24 is probably going to be lower than inflation

2% for 24/25 is ridiculous to agree to now, given the state of the economy. What if inflation goes to 20%? I guarantee it will be higher than this.

Sick pay - worse
Hours - worse
Flexability - worse

OUR union have been so weak, the scum at the top of the organisation should be fought every step of the way for destroying the service that most of us used to be proud of. We have houses that aren’t receiving 1 delivery some weeks.

You and a lot at the top need to stand up and be counted, at the moment you are a hell of a lot closer to management than you are to us!

IHR and VR - worse.

If yah's tolerate this savagery now, what will they be coming for just round the corner?

Unpaid meal relief?, further attacks to sick pay?, Pension cuts?

Its all a race to the bottom for RM with CWU backing it all the way to preserve themselves.

VOTE NO

[FilthyBloke]

I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.


we have changed the companies position on all the following

1. Up to 3 hour later starts. 17:00 last letter delivery.
2. Processing and network duties moving up to 3 hours later.
3. Compulsory Sundays paid at Monday to Saturday rates.
4. Owner drivers in Royal Mail pick up the growth in parcels.
5. Annualised hours linked to scan in scan out deciding your pay.
6. Flexi bank so you don’t have a finish time you have to complete. Additionally if you finished earlier determine by your PDA/ Siso then they could determine when that hours would be worked.
7. 5 Mail Centre closures.
8. Their best and final agreement only gave a no compulsory redundancies agreement until March 2023.
9. The future of Parcelforce would have been unlimited owner drivers.
10. All legacy allowances to be removed including RRIS which for over 30 thousand members would be a pay cut ranging from £6 to £35 per week.
11. Pay was dependent on the change being introduced. The lump sum was also dependent on change being introduced.
12 individual performance standards linked to PDA OA and 100 BSi indoors. Replacement of the NCI procedure to allow individuals to be sacked for poor performance.
13. No more disagreements or negotiations at local level on revisions etc.
14. New entrants not part of the collective bargaining and a stand alone workforce.


Yes the agreement is not perfect but anyone who believes Royal Mail are going to suddenly say there will be no change will have to think again.

Some understand that…
Personally I think one of the main reasons people are objecting is how the CWU rallied everyone together with statements like “10% and NO strings!” And “win the ballot win the Dispute!”

This is far from ‘NO strings’ and a lot don’t see this deal as a ‘win’.

A lot of people said that RM won’t budge much even way back in august so it’s not a deal that is that surprising to that group. But the others feel they have been sold down the river.

I’m hoping the Q&A with Ward and Co will convince others this is the best deal. Otherwise who knows what RM will do.

i would like to ask you personally in front of everyone on here, are you union or anti. i personally am pro-union thru and thru. but i also think we have been sold down the river...... next time they will come for 2 hours and no paid breaks and they will get 1 hour and the first 20 mins. union will say.... ''but they wanted 2hrs but we only gave them 1. and we only gave tjhem the first 20 mins of the break.....next time etc....just use your imagination.....its not hard to see where this is going.

I’m pro union for top end negotiations but anti dodgy local reps who, in my experience, are mostly in it for themselves and look after their close buddies first.

I think we (as a company) are on a downward spiral, and I think that is in full motion now. The union can slow it down but it is inevitable that this ship will founder.

[postslippete]

I’m pro union for top end negotiations but anti dodgy local reps who, in my experience, are mostly in it for themselves and look after their close buddies first.

I think we (as a company) are on a downward spiral, and I think that is in full motion now. The union can slow it down but it is inevitable that this ship will founder.

Yep, I agree with that

Can't remember the last time our rep went out on delivery. Spends too much time in the managers office doing management things.

You don't want someone like that if you're brought into the managers office under the conduct code, as they are likely to protect them first.

There's a reason why it's become known as the Communication Managers Union