Tony Bouch - PEC Member in a personal capacity

[77SAMPOST77]

How did the meeting go yesterday in Birmingham?
I'm guessing just like the meeting in Bristol .like a lead balloon.
They don't even want to speak to us via Facebook live or YouTube live .there running scared of there own members .
Here have a podcast .not good enough.
Here have several 3 minute twitter videos .
Not good enough.

Vote no and remove the enemy within the cwu ,remove Dave ward ,furey and the shysters on pec .
Vote no

Totally agree , VOTE NO .

Do you genuinely believe the CWU leadership have colluded with RM to stitch up the workforce in order to save their jobs? Yes the CWU have been outmanouvered at every stage and their tactics were probably wrong but that can be changed. Whatever a NO vote brings cannot be changed. By removing individuals from the CWU, RM will not re-enter negotiations and start negotiating the whole deal all over again. Don't make your vote in anger whichever way you decide.

I am voting in anger because I am very angry and so are many others .

Whatever happens next the union must feel our wrath and hopefully senior members of the union will do the decent thing and resign .

[redlen]

The quality of the Media and Coms dept compared to Royal Mail has been appalling.

[stevejm]

I think the CWU have been told by RM of it's perilous financial position which they cannot pass on because it would break confidentiality rules. If CWU hadn't endorsed the deal would RM have entered administration, withdrawn the offer and laid off thousands? RM is asset rich but cash poor. If the dispute carries on, strike action is called and RM do enter administration it will not be able to raise capital until the administrator sorts out all RMs problems. What that would mean is anybody's guess.

You keep parroting the same story - would you stop until you have at least done some research?

First RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.

IDS finances are fine - check out https://simplywall.st/stocks/gb/transpo ... res/health

IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!! If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfil the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.

Do a bit more lateral thinking. The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place

The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and are bleating like meek lambs.

[stevejm]

Do you genuinely believe the CWU leadership have colluded with RM to stitch up the workforce in order to save their jobs? Yes the CWU have been outmanouvered at every stage and their tactics were probably wrong but that can be changed. Whatever a NO vote brings cannot be changed. By removing individuals from the CWU, RM will not re-enter negotiations and start negotiating the whole deal all over again. Don't make your vote in anger whichever way you decide.

Yes to Bold!! see my post above

the stench of collusion is overpowering - would make anybody angry

who said anything about re-entering negotiations for week/months? Doh?? With the stroke of a pen they can improve the deal where it is manifestly s**t

[stevejm]

The quality of the Media and Coms dept compared to Royal Mail has been appalling.

quality of presentation - yes
quality of timely delivery - a hundred times yes
quality of information - about equal but until recently I trusted the CWU , now I trust neither.

[toonshola]

Yet another PEC member worrying about his cushy number, there’s some videos on Facebook doing the rounds of others from the PEC begging for a yes vote. We had Martin Walsh posting here recently in a similar panic. It’s convincing nobody, if anything it’s made me double down on my decision to vote no.

[freespeech]

I'd just like to ask. What is the outcome of a no vote? What will this achieve or not?

Genuine question and an answer to which we all need to make a balanced considered decision to vote yes or no.
It is a bad deal by comparison to any other we have had but is it the lesser of two evils?

They can mess around with revisions, put as much extra work on me as they want, I come in on time,work correctly, have break and go home on time. Everyone has got to remember this is what they can do too.

I've asked the same question......in my view RM already have an agreement which has now been endorsed by the PEC. As the CWU do the collective bargaining for members that is all they need. The membership ballot is nothing more than internal Politics. I really can't see any more appetite for IA if it's a no vote (assuming it's a close vote).

[redlen]

It is a cushy number when the PEC made up of NEC Members. Double Bubble.
It stinks of corruption and cronyism. That is why nothing changes and a rubber stamp job.

[hfcbkk1875]

Sorry don't know how to quote timbo123
The short answer is yes .
Say this deal goes through,the next time the cwu/a disagree with management all management will do is say get back in line or we will review the finance that helps the unions structure.cwu/ will sell us out again ..
If this goes through they may as well be called the communication worker association, not union .they have dug a whole they may never get out off.

Vote no and remove the enemy with the cwu.remove ward,furey and the rest of the shysters on pec

[ANDREW CROCOMBE]

All very good and well presented, but does this change the facts : uso failure is 'illegal' (maybe) the revision has created rounds that are far too big - management starting to clamp down (again) - amazingly some posties who went on strike are managing to complete these 2/3 duties. Albeit with ot being paid, their actions crucify everyone doing the job correctly. No idea where we go from here now. Seems that no one will support us by doing something positive.

[timbo1234]

I think the CWU have been told by RM of it's perilous financial position which they cannot pass on because it would break confidentiality rules. If CWU hadn't endorsed the deal would RM have entered administration, withdrawn the offer and laid off thousands? RM is asset rich but cash poor. If the dispute carries on, strike action is called and RM do enter administration it will not be able to raise capital until the administrator sorts out all RMs problems. What that would mean is anybody's guess.

You keep parroting the same story - would you stop until you have at least done some research?

First RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.

IDS finances are fine - check out https://simplywall.st/stocks/gb/transpo ... res/health

IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!! If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfil the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.

Do a bit more lateral thinking. The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place

The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and are bleating like meek lambs.

I do not agree that this is a deal endorsed by the CWU for self preservation reasons. That does not make any sense. I think it's deluded to think RM will come back to the negotiating table just because we vote no. Don't vote no to the deal to get back at the CWU. You can do that when the officers who control it are up for re-election. I think RM have behaved appallingly but to use a no vote to get back at the CWU is not the right way in my opinion.

[timbo1234]

In regard to IDS cross subsidising RM that would only be possible if the group is not broken up.

[sindba]

Not good enough.

Unspecified "indoor methods" and sick policy capitulations dismissed with a wave of the hand.

And don't worry about PDA performance management, RM have given "assurances" that it will only be used "supportively". Jeez where to start with that.

I'm sure this "joint working party" about start and finish times will really have teeth though.

Dismal stuff. Absolutely dismal.

[sindba]

The quality of the Media and Coms dept compared to Royal Mail has been appalling.

Agreed.

[clashcityrocker]

You keep parroting the same story - would you stop until you have at least done some research?

First RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.

And the cross subsidy is to stop. That is what Simon said.
Do you not remember that from your research?