Putting things into perspective

[calsae]

I’m not a union man but what if this is actually the best deal available.
Iv been critical of the union from august onwards but to me it was clear that RM didn’t want to budge and were happy to dig their heels in. So the CWU fought and then realised it wasn’t going to get a deal it originally wanted.

The problem is that the union have said for months that this pay rise is ‘derisory’ and the terms and conditions were worth striking for and everything else…. But now it’s clear that this is pretty much it. The members still have that ‘derisory’ comment and slogans such as ‘win the ballot win the dispute’, and the end of the line is that this doesn’t feel like a ‘win’ and the union probably know that. But they are up against a company that matched them every step of the way and achieved their own targets.

So I think the union has trapped itself with its slogans and dreamy language but this was perhaps the only deal they could have got. It just took them a while to realise.

Agree I think some of us realised this many months ago

100%

[postslippete]

If I'm reading the room correctly, then the Royal Mail board are using a poker face as regards the financial situation to bring out everything that they originally wanted in this deal and the CWU have reluctantly decided to fold.


Some points to bear in mind if we are still losing a million quid a day....

1. We haven't striked since last Xmas
2. Royal Mail have brought in revisions, made duties bigger and workloads unmanageable, purposefully failing the USO.
3. Overtime on delivery has been virtually non-existent.
4. Vans have been de-commissioned
5. *Parcel traffic is busier than it was before the pandemic.

*When Royal Mail quote mail/traffic figures they deliberately pick the ones which substantially highlight big differences. As far as I'm concerned I've noticed a monumental increase in parcel traffic, which has accelerated in part, due to the pandemic.


The other thing to consider is Royal Mail's financial position in the year before the pandemic. If it was succeeding financially then, why can't it now when Royal Mail have had an increase in parcel traffic and made rounds bigger??

[sindba]

I don’t get to vote having already withdrawn my union subs but my opinion is the CWU is finished, they have let the members down. The ‘Chest Beating’ from them on social media created the massive mandate but they consistently showed their amateurish approach from holding up ‘vote yes’ at the parliamentary committee to putting ‘I’m with the union’ in comments on live feeds. All due respect Martin you guys haven’t ‘read the room’
As I have said in my previous posts I will carry on quietly quitting for as long as I can. My body feels like it’s recovering slowly from the years of pushing myself to do to a good job. Now it’s do as little as possible until my finish time, don’t get involved in unit wranglings and just enjoy the fresh air and the saunter around the streets.

Sauntering? Better speed up coz you'll be getting your PDA tracking shoved in your face by your manager thanks to this deal.

"Read the room"

[rambo1]

A sensible post!

And what are those consequences Martin ,
For those of us NOT ABLE TO READ THE ROOM .
Pretty arrogant comment that is .

I know , if they want the deal through then THEY ABOLUTELY MUST inform us what the outcome of a no vote will be.

[einastronaut]

There were plenty of posters on this forum pointing out that the union weren't "reading the room" 7-8 months ago. It's a bit rich now to say anyone thinking of rejecting this irredeemably poor deal isn't "reading the room."

The union wasted its mandate from the get-go. It pursued a delusional "no strings inflation matching pay rise" and "no to change" line for well over 6 months - with no scope to compromise in its tone. It took, what, 9(?) weeks of strike action before it even started seeking to engage in talks with the company. It seemed to think the company would come crawling to them. What part of any of this dispute made them think the company weren't serious? The union forced the company to commit to the long haul and see it through to its optimal outcome (to compensate for the commitment in costs incurred due to protracted IA - which the union made it clear it was committed to).
If the union had engaged with reality from the start; made concessions where they could be made and rounded off the worst of the changes (those changes which were of only marginal benefit to the company to pursue) then a far better deal could have been secured before meaningful IA had even taken place. Instead the union was all bluster and their bluff was called, the strike damage done and the company said, okay, we'll weather this, wait it out, and when the union have nothing left to leverage against it, take it all. The union today is a spent force, because of choices it made.

It's just far too rich now for the union to finally face reality - a year too late and after exhausting its relevancy - and then try to sell a far worse deal than was achievable back in September as "it's the best you're going to get" so we'd suggest you don't vote against it. It's only that because of how poorly handled the dispute was. It's a very poor deal and an expansive attack on conditions - many of which could have been better protected - all traded away for a substantial real terms pay cut.

I stopped paying subs in early October for the above reasons. This outcome seemed inevitable even back then. No realism, no strategy, no endgame. It was only latterly that the union started to listen and engage with the real world, but it was just too late.

[dazzler123]

I don’t get to vote having already withdrawn my union subs but my opinion is the CWU is finished, they have let the members down. The ‘Chest Beating’ from them on social media created the massive mandate but they consistently showed their amateurish approach from holding up ‘vote yes’ at the parliamentary committee to putting ‘I’m with the union’ in comments on live feeds. All due respect Martin you guys haven’t ‘read the room’
As I have said in my previous posts I will carry on quietly quitting for as long as I can. My body feels like it’s recovering slowly from the years of pushing myself to do to a good job. Now it’s do as little as possible until my finish time, don’t get involved in unit wranglings and just enjoy the fresh air and the saunter around the streets.

the pride of doing a good job and not letting your customers down has well and truly evaporated. It has to for your own health

[Factotum]

The agreement must be seen in the context that Royal Mail as a company is on a cliff top. Mismanagement , loss of revenue and increased costs have put the very future of Royal Mail moving forward into jeopardy.

Those who claim that the government will bail us out are only part right. They would have continued with the USO but everything else would have likely ceased causing thousands of immediate job losses with on Statuary redundancy pay available.

No responsible union gambles with its members jobs and wages.

Instead we have an agreement, not perfect but has changed the company on every aspect.

Those who reject this and that is your right then do you really thing that change won’t be imposed and do you really think that pay in a company which loss 800 million this year is suddenly going to cough up even if it survives ?

Now let’s answer some of the points.

1. You deserve more pay but there is no more. The pay options are the same but the 6% this year is better option as it flows through to pensions , allowances , overtime and SA. The lump sum option would have delayed the 6% to next year and meant you only got 2% in April.

2. Royal Mail are coming of flights , no strike will force Royal Mail to continue to fly Mail for CO2 reasons and that a growing number of companies are refusing to use parcel companies who fly work. Once Royal Mail come off planes you will receive your distant mail later.

3. The CWU have reduced this to ensure that in the vast majority of untie you will only move up to 60 minutes.

4. Just because the last letter for urban and rural will move to 16:30. It does not mean every unit moves to 16:30. The current urban last letter is 15:30 not every unit currently finishes at 15:30.

5. The agreement states that the majority of units will finish by 15:30 , the vast majority by 16:00 and there will be working groups to ensure this can be achieved.

6. Seasonal variations is fundamentally different to annualised hours and flexi bank. Every Delivery postie will know a year in advance their start and finish times. The 15 weeks in the summer when you will work 24 minutes less per day and the 15 weeks in peak when you will work 24 minutes more per day before your duty is known.

7. The 30 minutes flex is not compulsory and is subject to a review.

I will comment more in due course but if anyone believes there are no consequences if you reject the deal and believe it will get better than your really are not reading the room.

I can get on board with this perspective mostly. The real concern for me however, is the change to sick pay. What are the chances of national absence falling below 5.5% and the full sick pay terms being fully reinstated? Once sick pay terms are reduced, the fear is they will remain that way permanently. I could reluctantly but pragmatically agree to everything else in the agreement but genuinely shocked at the sick pay element.

[rambo1]

I’m not a union man but what if this is actually the best deal available.
Iv been critical of the union from august onwards but to me it was clear that RM didn’t want to budge and were happy to dig their heels in. So the CWU fought and then realised it wasn’t going to get a deal it originally wanted.

The problem is that the union have said for months that this pay rise is ‘derisory’ and the terms and conditions were worth striking for and everything else…. But now it’s clear that this is pretty much it. The members still have that ‘derisory’ comment and slogans such as ‘win the ballot win the dispute’, and the end of the line is that this doesn’t feel like a ‘win’ and the union probably know that. But they are up against a company that matched them every step of the way and achieved their own targets.

So I think the union has trapped itself with its slogans and dreamy language but this was perhaps the only deal they could have got. It just took them a while to realise.

spot on.

[norris9]

Now this share scheme may come in - have we lost the £200 payment we usually get in December? because if we have then I'd rather have an agreement of a guaranteed £200 bonus each year rather than something between £0 and £400.

[Judgee]

I have no doubt this is the best offer this Cwu leadership can get. Which is why they need to go!

This deal is awful. It is a pay cut and ignores all the EA brought in by management whilst the union buried their heads in the sand. The strikes were ineffective because they were often screwed up by the Cwu and made pointless when they ceased after Xmas allowing RM to catch up.

The longer this dispute has gone on the more incompetent the CWU leadership has looked.

I am sick of CWU excuses.

I am voting no and hope the CWU leadership do the honorable thing and resign as we have no hope of achieving any kind of decent outcome while they are at the helm!

[calsae]

I don’t get to vote having already withdrawn my union subs but my opinion is the CWU is finished, they have let the members down. The ‘Chest Beating’ from them on social media created the massive mandate but they consistently showed their amateurish approach from holding up ‘vote yes’ at the parliamentary committee to putting ‘I’m with the union’ in comments on live feeds. All due respect Martin you guys haven’t ‘read the room’
As I have said in my previous posts I will carry on quietly quitting for as long as I can. My body feels like it’s recovering slowly from the years of pushing myself to do to a good job. Now it’s do as little as possible until my finish time, don’t get involved in unit wranglings and just enjoy the fresh air and the saunter around the streets.

Sauntering? Better speed up coz you'll be getting your PDA tracking shoved in your face by your manager thanks to this deal.

"Read the room"

That’s why I said “for as long as I can”

[calsae]

I don’t get to vote having already withdrawn my union subs but my opinion is the CWU is finished, they have let the members down. The ‘Chest Beating’ from them on social media created the massive mandate but they consistently showed their amateurish approach from holding up ‘vote yes’ at the parliamentary committee to putting ‘I’m with the union’ in comments on live feeds. All due respect Martin you guys haven’t ‘read the room’
As I have said in my previous posts I will carry on quietly quitting for as long as I can. My body feels like it’s recovering slowly from the years of pushing myself to do to a good job. Now it’s do as little as possible until my finish time, don’t get involved in unit wranglings and just enjoy the fresh air and the saunter around the streets.

the pride of doing a good job and not letting your customers down has well and truly evaporated. It has to for your own health

[KennethBoon]

Union are complete w*****s n hopefully enough people stop paying there subs so these reps can't keep walking round like they own the place. Self important pr**s

[CRIBMAD]

I have no doubt this is the best offer this Cwu leadership can get. Which is why they need to go!

This deal is awful. It is a pay cut and ignores all the EA brought in by management whilst the union buried their heads in the sand. The strikes were ineffective because they were often screwed up by the Cwu and made pointless when they ceased after Xmas allowing RM to catch up.

The longer this dispute has gone on the more incompetent the CWU leadership has looked.

I am sick of CWU excuses.

I am voting no and hope the CWU leadership do the honorable thing and resign as we have no hope of achieving any kind of decent outcome while they are at the helm!

hate to agree but yes you are correct !

[BigSacks]

I appreciate the post and some of the information.

Whilst I agree with and understand the unions position, some of what has been said in subsequent replies has some merit.
I do think the Union painted itself into a corner and relied heavily on past disputes where, frankly, the company did come crawling because it felt it had to.

I think the devil is in the detail and you must remember, you MUST that the Union has only one job. Not pay, not conditions but stopping members being laid off. That’s it.

In hindsight over decades I’d say our union has done pretty well to get us into the position it has.
And I’d agree at this stage it’s looking like it’s done it’s best in clearly, abundantly clearly, difficult circumstances.

There are some members that can’t read the room because their heads are stuck up their arses and they think it’s the mid-90s.