Summary of the proposed agreement

[Clappedoutpostie]

There was a 3.5% and a £500 for successful Revision that would have been payable from April 2022 without the CWU... And that probably would have been for 1 year and if I recall, another 1.5% for 2023/2024.

The CWU have only moved Royal Mail a little bit, save for securing Allowances (for a few) and what else?

Thanks to the CWU for nothing!

The successful revision bonus wouldn’t have been paid.

[chrisj]

There was a 3.5% and a £500 for successful Revision that would have been payable from April 2022 without the CWU... And that probably would have been for 1 year and if I recall, another 1.5% for 2023/2024.

The CWU have only moved Royal Mail a little bit, save for securing Allowances (for a few) and what else?

Thanks to the CWU for nothing!

The successful revision bonus wouldn’t have been paid.

Why not? Revision have now been imposed; so would they not pay it? Regardless, Royal Mail would have given us a pay rise with none of the aggro and loss of earnings through strikes and the present precarious financial situation

[Clappedoutpostie]

Why not? Revision have now been imposed; so would they not pay it? Regardless, Royal Mail would have given us a pay rise with none of the aggro and loss of earnings through strikes and the present precarious financial situation

The clue is in the word successful. I have been in half a dozen offices since they have had these revisions and I’m yet to see a successful one.

[Nickvilla20]

Why not? Revision have now been imposed; so would they not pay it? Regardless, Royal Mail would have given us a pay rise with none of the aggro and loss of earnings through strikes and the present precarious financial situation

The clue is in the word successful. I have been in half a dozen offices since they have had these revisions and I’m yet to see a successful one.

I would imagine success is all financial. I agree though we wouldn’t have been paid any bonus.

[postslippete]

I don't understand why they want later start times AND they are saying we'll absolutely finish by 4:30pm.

They don't pay us an early morning supplement, so they won't be saving money by bringing us in later.

And if the 4:30pm finish is to be believed, then most people with jobs will be out of the house whether we're delivering at noon or 4:30pm.

The only benefit I can see for a later finish is if we're still working in the evening, more people will be home, giving signed / parcel deliveries a higher success rate, but that won't apply at 4:30pm.

I can't see why RM would push so hard for a later finish time, unless they are intending for 4:30pm finishes to be a stepping stone, then in a year they can push start times 'just another 90 minutes later' so we can deliver in the evening.

Purely from a business perspective, I can see them wanting posties working in the evening (especially parcel drivers), but I can also see working past school finishing time being a red line that many posties would vote to strike over, so absolutely not worth Simon pushing for it unless he has an end-game for it.

Starting and finishing later only benefits Royal Mail, not us (the workers) nor our customers.

I believe the long term plan is to close even more mail centres and run all parcels through these new superhubs that they have built. It had 69 mail centres in 2007, 51 in 2012 and probably even less of them now. By automating the parcels they need less staff in processing and also hope to save on indoor time in delivery offices. As I work on delivery I don't know how it will do this, but if they want to stop using internal air transport for parcels and instead process and transport them from further afield via road/rail then it will mean that we will start and ultimately finish later. Royal Mail are suggesting that reducing CO2 emissions is the reason why they want to avoid transporting parcels via air but I believe they are just doing it because it saves them money.

I notice in the proposals that Royal Mail are offering a 35 hour week during the summer and a 39 hour week in the winter when we are busier. I would humbly suggest that the CWU don't back down and state that we should have a shorter working week of 35 hours all year round. The savings that Royal Mail will make once these superhubs are up and running, consider that parcels are a growth industry, will more than pay for itself in years to come.
Plus with a shorter working week we may also be able to finish a bit earlier, essentially creating more of a win-win scenario.

Unfortunately, Royal Mail seem to be demanding too much erosion of our existing terms and cons in return for too little pay.

[DGH]

A lot of this agreement has some very woolly language that RM will exploit. 'A commitment to work towards' means absolutely f**k all when you come down to it - it's just a pious hope. It will not suit RM to work towards a 35 hour week. But they can say what they please because they're giving no firm promise.

Other bits seem more or (usually) less innocuous in isolation. But paired up they become quite nasty.

Seasonal hours of 35, 37 or 39 hours a week. Okay, not the end of the world.
But then add to that taking about 30 minutes of inside work out of DOs. That's 30 mins extra delivery. Every day.
And then add the 'every day flexibility' of +/- 30 mins.

That means that on a busy day in the winter a current 4.5 hour delivery span could be increased by
a. 15-25 minutes (Seasonal hours, depending on whether some of that workload is inside work, and likely it will not be as DOs will seek to cover that by early morning overtime).
b. 30 minutes because 30 minutes of inside work has been removed
c. up to 30 mins because you have 'daily flexibility'.

So potentially, 4 days a week in the winter, you could be out on delivery for nearly six hours (excluding breaks). And then have local management turning round and saying 'oh sorry, we don't have the hours in the office to let you take that 2 hours accumulated daily 'flex' this week or next week. We'll pay it instead.' This will be further confused by the 'within 10 working days' wording because with everyone having different rotating days (and especially reserves), managers simply won't be able to track everyone's current 'balance' properly, even with an app to help them. And what will happen when you have a two week holiday? Or, in many cases just a one week holiday with outstanding hours owed either way.

I'd like to see extremely clear and detailed examples of how all this is meant to work.

As for the pay . . . 2%, then 6% then 2% will be just under 10.3% over the three years when cumulative inflation already well exceeds that. So a very definite real terms pay cut. That could be mitigated by backdating at least some of that pay rise and giving the £1500 lump sum straight away. But it'd still not be by any stretch decent, let alone generous.

[FilthyBloke]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

[k979aaa]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Come dusk and I will be gone.
If royal mail in is wisdom proceeds with this abortion of its own ideas they will be screwed people don't work for nothing or the pittance they pay!
Id rather eat my own hamster than be bought by a ship of fools!

[redlen]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

[k979aaa]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

How would you know as your not a postman and said I have had a good run on here?

[ted_e_bear]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

They don't walk down it

[49erman]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

If as a postperson you deem it unsafe I.e. unlit pathway you are advised not to deliver. Our Dom/ Com has always stipulated anywhere unsafe (in our eyes) then do not deliver……..from the horses mouth.

[FilthyBloke]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

It’s health and safety.

“The circumstances that Ofcom considers exceptional for the purposes of deliveries are:

Health and Safety
Insecurity
Difficulty of Access
Customer Request”

Adequate lighting is basic health and safety.

[k979aaa]

Remember if it’s dark and the driveway or lane is unlit you do not have to walk down it.

Where does it state you do not have to go down an unlit driveway or lane??

The likes of AMAZON, and supermarkets do it up to 22:00 at night. The majority of Local Authorities have now turned off street lighting hoping to save money.

It’s health and safety.

“The circumstances that Ofcom considers exceptional for the purposes of deliveries are:

Health and Safety
Insecurity
Difficulty of Access
Customer Request”

Adequate lighting is basic health and safety.

Poverty!

[redlen]

That is why you do a dynamic risk assessment for outdoor workers. A manager then makes the decision on that risk assessment.