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Individual performance blamed !!

Pay talks 2022 discussion, news, LTB's RMCtv and all BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT chat
Clappedoutpostie
Posts: 1235
Joined: 05 Nov 2021, 21:46
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by Clappedoutpostie »

steve1873 wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 15:39
Play the game!

Ask to see a copy of the outdoor performance standards and you will strive to achieve them (they don't exist btw). But ensure that the manager in question is left in no doubt that failure to supply you with the relevant documentation will ensure that a bullying and harassment case is taken out against them!
You could also ask for a copy of the indoor work plan, we don’t have one of them either. When it was mentioned at the latest revision we were told you will just do what we tell you we don’t need a plan :d'oh!
steve1873
Posts: 775
Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by steve1873 »

clashcityrocker wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 15:46
steve1873 wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 15:39
Play the game!

Ask to see a copy of the outdoor performance standards and you will strive to achieve them (they don't exist btw).
by lobsterhands » Yesterday, 19:58
Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??


Asking to see a copy of the outdoor performance standards would seem a bit strange in the circumstances.
It really wouldn't be strange. Indoor performance can be proven easily. Via the agreed 1 minute test. A monkey could pass that.

Therefore, once indoor performance is proven to be adequate - the only other issue that can be questioned is outdoor performance.
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by redlen »

download/file.php?id=1511

Overrunning Deliveries Notification Procedure
steve1873
Posts: 775
Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by steve1873 »

redlen wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 16:24
download/file.php?id=1511

Overrunning Deliveries Notification Procedure
That is so out of date, it's approaching hilarious levels.
theotherone
Posts: 430
Joined: 04 Jun 2020, 21:58
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by theotherone »

When is that from? There is no longer 'wiflul delay' as such but 3 sub groups now.It must be very old who are Postcomm?

Edit:
Delay to mail
Delay to mail can be treated as:
• Unintentional delay
• Unexcused delay
• Intentional delay
Unintentional delay
Royal Mail Group recognises that genuine
mistakes and misunderstandings do occur and
it is not our intention that such cases should
be dealt with under the Conduct Policy beyond
informal discussions for the isolated instance.

Unexcused delay
Various actions can cause mail to be delayed,
for example carelessness or negligence
leading to loss or delay of customers’ mail, or
breach or disregard of a standard or guideline.
Such instances are to be distinguished from
intentional delay (see below), although they
may also be treated as misconduct and dealt
with under the Conduct Policy, outcomes may
range from an informal discussion to dismissal.

Intentional delay
Intentional delay of mail is classed as
gross misconduct which, if proven, could
lead to dismissal. The test to determine
whether actions may be considered as
intentional delay, is whether the action
taken by the employee was knowingly
deliberate, with an intention to delay mail.
Where proven, such breaches of conduct
can lead to dismissal, even for a first offence;
indeed intentional delay is a criminal
offence and can result in prosecution.
Dexydog
Posts: 887
Joined: 14 Jan 2017, 13:54
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by Dexydog »

Unless you're a manager.
norris9
Posts: 2618
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 17:32
Gender: Female

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by norris9 »

Meanwhile, all management do is ask you to do lapsing, or go do IPS, or to move jobs to clear 3 days mail....

They do nothing compared to the posties.

They twiddle their thumbs for large parts of the day when they could help prep frames.



Management's performance is abysmal.
Surreypostie
Posts: 997
Joined: 04 Aug 2013, 21:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by Surreypostie »

lobsterhands wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 19:58
dazzler123 wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 19:48
how can they review, PDAs are not used to measure performance they said
Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??
Everyone should be out the door for 09.20, we don’t start till 08.00 tomorrow and our 20 minute break is at 09.00. So that gives you 1 hour to sort mail / packets, then sort mail, prep delivery duty, scan tracked in, sort out lapse, basically impossible.
If you start at 8 you cannot legally have your break at 9am, your break should be taken near to the middle of the day, tell him to shove that in his pipe, that is the law of the land.
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by redlen »

Royal Mail offers a 20 minute statutory obligation which must be taken near the middle of your duty.

Royal Mail also gives a 20 minute contractual break in excess of statutory provision.
It is this break when the employer can state when you take that contractual obligation.

If working six hours or less, such as a part-time worker, there is no statutory provision so the employer can say when you take that contractual break
lobsterhands
Posts: 72
Joined: 10 Nov 2022, 17:10
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by lobsterhands »

Surreypostie wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 19:32
lobsterhands wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 19:58
dazzler123 wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 19:48
how can they review, PDAs are not used to measure performance they said
Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??
Everyone should be out the door for 09.20, we don’t start till 08.00 tomorrow and our 20 minute break is at 09.00. So that gives you 1 hour to sort mail / packets, then sort mail, prep delivery duty, scan tracked in, sort out lapse, basically impossible.
If you start at 8 you cannot legally have your break at 9am, your break should be taken near to the middle of the day, tell him to shove that in his pipe, that is the law of the land.
This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
DGH
Posts: 686
Joined: 13 Dec 2014, 18:04
Gender: Male
Location: Neither here nor there

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by DGH »

redlen wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 19:40
Royal Mail offers a 20 minute statutory obligation which must be taken near the middle of your duty.

Royal Mail also gives a 20 minute contractual break in excess of statutory provision.
It is this break when the employer can state when you take that contractual obligation.

If working six hours or less, such as a part-time worker, there is no statutory provision so the employer can say when you take that contractual break
You're wrong. Regardless of whether the break is contractual or statutory, it should be taken towards the middle of the day and the employer may dictate when within that provision. https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/taking-breaks.

Now I grant you that provision is vague, but it in fact covers both the statutory and contractual element of any breaks and it's quite hard to see how 1 hour into a 7.5 hour day could be argued as being 'towards the middle of the day'.
DGH
Posts: 686
Joined: 13 Dec 2014, 18:04
Gender: Male
Location: Neither here nor there

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by DGH »

lobsterhands wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 19:52


This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
You should not be taking any break at the end of the day, nor at its start. The union and the company cannot lawfully agree that. Breaks shoudl be taken 'towards the middle' of the working day. I know in RM that was traditionally ignored, but that does not alter the facts.
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by redlen »

Sorry you are in error

The statutory provision only states you are entitled to a 20 minute break if working six hours or more.

That is contained in the Working Tme Regulations.

Any break in excess of statutory provision is contractual in which the employer can state when you take that contractual entitlement
Last edited by redlen on 21 Mar 2023, 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by redlen »

DGH wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 20:38
lobsterhands wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 19:52


This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
You should not be taking any break at the end of the day, nor at its start. The union and the company cannot lawfully agree that. Breaks shoudl be taken 'towards the middle' of the working day. I know in RM that was traditionally ignored, but that does not alter the facts.
Have to agree with your post that breaks should be taken in the middle of your duty span
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Individual performance blamed !!

Post by redlen »