You could also ask for a copy of the indoor work plan, we don’t have one of them either. When it was mentioned at the latest revision we were told you will just do what we tell you we don’t need a plansteve1873 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 15:39Play the game!
Ask to see a copy of the outdoor performance standards and you will strive to achieve them (they don't exist btw). But ensure that the manager in question is left in no doubt that failure to supply you with the relevant documentation will ensure that a bullying and harassment case is taken out against them!
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Individual performance blamed !!
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Clappedoutpostie
- Posts: 1235
- Joined: 05 Nov 2021, 21:46
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
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steve1873
- Posts: 775
- Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
It really wouldn't be strange. Indoor performance can be proven easily. Via the agreed 1 minute test. A monkey could pass that.clashcityrocker wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 15:46by lobsterhands » Yesterday, 19:58
Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??
Asking to see a copy of the outdoor performance standards would seem a bit strange in the circumstances.
Therefore, once indoor performance is proven to be adequate - the only other issue that can be questioned is outdoor performance.
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redlen
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
- Gender: Male
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steve1873
- Posts: 775
- Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 13:55
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
That is so out of date, it's approaching hilarious levels.redlen wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 16:24download/file.php?id=1511
Overrunning Deliveries Notification Procedure
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theotherone
- Posts: 430
- Joined: 04 Jun 2020, 21:58
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
When is that from? There is no longer 'wiflul delay' as such but 3 sub groups now.It must be very old who are Postcomm?
Edit:
Delay to mail
Delay to mail can be treated as:
• Unintentional delay
• Unexcused delay
• Intentional delay
Unintentional delay
Royal Mail Group recognises that genuine
mistakes and misunderstandings do occur and
it is not our intention that such cases should
be dealt with under the Conduct Policy beyond
informal discussions for the isolated instance.
Unexcused delay
Various actions can cause mail to be delayed,
for example carelessness or negligence
leading to loss or delay of customers’ mail, or
breach or disregard of a standard or guideline.
Such instances are to be distinguished from
intentional delay (see below), although they
may also be treated as misconduct and dealt
with under the Conduct Policy, outcomes may
range from an informal discussion to dismissal.
Intentional delay
Intentional delay of mail is classed as
gross misconduct which, if proven, could
lead to dismissal. The test to determine
whether actions may be considered as
intentional delay, is whether the action
taken by the employee was knowingly
deliberate, with an intention to delay mail.
Where proven, such breaches of conduct
can lead to dismissal, even for a first offence;
indeed intentional delay is a criminal
offence and can result in prosecution.
Edit:
Delay to mail
Delay to mail can be treated as:
• Unintentional delay
• Unexcused delay
• Intentional delay
Unintentional delay
Royal Mail Group recognises that genuine
mistakes and misunderstandings do occur and
it is not our intention that such cases should
be dealt with under the Conduct Policy beyond
informal discussions for the isolated instance.
Unexcused delay
Various actions can cause mail to be delayed,
for example carelessness or negligence
leading to loss or delay of customers’ mail, or
breach or disregard of a standard or guideline.
Such instances are to be distinguished from
intentional delay (see below), although they
may also be treated as misconduct and dealt
with under the Conduct Policy, outcomes may
range from an informal discussion to dismissal.
Intentional delay
Intentional delay of mail is classed as
gross misconduct which, if proven, could
lead to dismissal. The test to determine
whether actions may be considered as
intentional delay, is whether the action
taken by the employee was knowingly
deliberate, with an intention to delay mail.
Where proven, such breaches of conduct
can lead to dismissal, even for a first offence;
indeed intentional delay is a criminal
offence and can result in prosecution.
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Dexydog
- Posts: 887
- Joined: 14 Jan 2017, 13:54
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
Unless you're a manager.
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norris9
- Posts: 2618
- Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 17:32
- Gender: Female
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
Meanwhile, all management do is ask you to do lapsing, or go do IPS, or to move jobs to clear 3 days mail....
They do nothing compared to the posties.
They twiddle their thumbs for large parts of the day when they could help prep frames.
Management's performance is abysmal.
They do nothing compared to the posties.
They twiddle their thumbs for large parts of the day when they could help prep frames.
Management's performance is abysmal.
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Surreypostie
- Posts: 997
- Joined: 04 Aug 2013, 21:05
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
If you start at 8 you cannot legally have your break at 9am, your break should be taken near to the middle of the day, tell him to shove that in his pipe, that is the law of the land.lobsterhands wrote: ↑20 Mar 2023, 19:58Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??dazzler123 wrote: ↑20 Mar 2023, 19:48how can they review, PDAs are not used to measure performance they said
Everyone should be out the door for 09.20, we don’t start till 08.00 tomorrow and our 20 minute break is at 09.00. So that gives you 1 hour to sort mail / packets, then sort mail, prep delivery duty, scan tracked in, sort out lapse, basically impossible.
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redlen
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
Royal Mail offers a 20 minute statutory obligation which must be taken near the middle of your duty.
Royal Mail also gives a 20 minute contractual break in excess of statutory provision.
It is this break when the employer can state when you take that contractual obligation.
If working six hours or less, such as a part-time worker, there is no statutory provision so the employer can say when you take that contractual break
Royal Mail also gives a 20 minute contractual break in excess of statutory provision.
It is this break when the employer can state when you take that contractual obligation.
If working six hours or less, such as a part-time worker, there is no statutory provision so the employer can say when you take that contractual break
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lobsterhands
- Posts: 72
- Joined: 10 Nov 2022, 17:10
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )Surreypostie wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 19:32If you start at 8 you cannot legally have your break at 9am, your break should be taken near to the middle of the day, tell him to shove that in his pipe, that is the law of the land.lobsterhands wrote: ↑20 Mar 2023, 19:58Apparently the problem is the indoor work ??dazzler123 wrote: ↑20 Mar 2023, 19:48how can they review, PDAs are not used to measure performance they said
Everyone should be out the door for 09.20, we don’t start till 08.00 tomorrow and our 20 minute break is at 09.00. So that gives you 1 hour to sort mail / packets, then sort mail, prep delivery duty, scan tracked in, sort out lapse, basically impossible.
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
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DGH
- Posts: 686
- Joined: 13 Dec 2014, 18:04
- Gender: Male
- Location: Neither here nor there
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
You're wrong. Regardless of whether the break is contractual or statutory, it should be taken towards the middle of the day and the employer may dictate when within that provision. https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/taking-breaks.redlen wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 19:40Royal Mail offers a 20 minute statutory obligation which must be taken near the middle of your duty.
Royal Mail also gives a 20 minute contractual break in excess of statutory provision.
It is this break when the employer can state when you take that contractual obligation.
If working six hours or less, such as a part-time worker, there is no statutory provision so the employer can say when you take that contractual break
Now I grant you that provision is vague, but it in fact covers both the statutory and contractual element of any breaks and it's quite hard to see how 1 hour into a 7.5 hour day could be argued as being 'towards the middle of the day'.
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DGH
- Posts: 686
- Joined: 13 Dec 2014, 18:04
- Gender: Male
- Location: Neither here nor there
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
You should not be taking any break at the end of the day, nor at its start. The union and the company cannot lawfully agree that. Breaks shoudl be taken 'towards the middle' of the working day. I know in RM that was traditionally ignored, but that does not alter the facts.lobsterhands wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 19:52
This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
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redlen
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
Sorry you are in error
The statutory provision only states you are entitled to a 20 minute break if working six hours or more.
That is contained in the Working Tme Regulations.
Any break in excess of statutory provision is contractual in which the employer can state when you take that contractual entitlement
The statutory provision only states you are entitled to a 20 minute break if working six hours or more.
That is contained in the Working Tme Regulations.
Any break in excess of statutory provision is contractual in which the employer can state when you take that contractual entitlement
Last edited by redlen on 21 Mar 2023, 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
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redlen
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
- Gender: Male
Re: Individual performance blamed !!
Have to agree with your post that breaks should be taken in the middle of your duty spanDGH wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 20:38You should not be taking any break at the end of the day, nor at its start. The union and the company cannot lawfully agree that. Breaks shoudl be taken 'towards the middle' of the working day. I know in RM that was traditionally ignored, but that does not alter the facts.lobsterhands wrote: ↑21 Mar 2023, 19:52
This was agreed with the DSM and our office union rep ( who is also the covering area union rep ) that we were to take 20 minutes before we went out and we take 20 at the end ( finish 20 minutes earlier )
The majority of people in our office tried to push for the full 40 minutes at the end ( hence finishing 40 minutes earlier ) but that was thrown out straight away.
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redlen
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
- Gender: Male