Lockout.

[chrisj]

The name calling is exactly why most will not want to cross the picket line: not because name calling hurts but it protects colleagues from getting into trouble. Some cannot help themselves by taking things too far - it is not personal; people have choices and they exercise their choice...

The same folks here are very quick to label others and then turn around when those people answer back.

More people will be back at work in 2 weeks time. This solidarity thing is misplaced!

[sindba]

Yawn. Whatever.

We're fighting for our livelihoods. We won't be broken by some scuttling little trolls, scroungers and strike breaking parasites on message boards trying to undermine our fight.

The lads and lasses of Royal Mail are made of sterner stuff. See you on the gate.

[Gary55]

Manager has already told me he will bring the parcels to me next Wednesday and Thursday.
Will be the same area I deliver to now. 40/50 parcels for a fair days pay. Suits me

c***

[Gasman11]

Got to be a wind up surely, He's trying too hard to be a contrarian with his casual demeanour act

[Acca Dacca]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

Modernisation is not sacking 25,000 workers and replacing them with agency and new starters on 20% less terms and conditions. That's simply cost cutting to extract more profit for shareholders. There's absolutely nothing progressive about it. The unions place is to represent us as a collective, through a democratic process. We are the union. It's not a handful of people separate from us.

Which came first, the strikes and the union's unwillingness to engage with the company on the change they wanted, or the job losses?

Well...well thats quite a take

The dispute started because we dare ask for a decent pay rise in April

Royal Mail THEN offered a subpar pay rise, nowhere near enough at the time let alone now with higher inflation, with a host of strings attached due in part because they didnt like that their car crash revision plan went tits up as expected. This was their 'revenge'. They were already trotting out the lines that they hadnt saved enough from the revisions. Who knew that just cutting frames and making the rest of the rounds massively unachievable wouldnt work? All of us knew.

When this stinking offer wasnt immediately and thankfully accepted - they decided to impose the 2% anyway

Royal Mail escalated this dispute. The dispute didnt start on change. It started on pay. Royal Mail turned it into 'pay for change'.

Do you think we should have accepted the very first 'offer' RM made in the summer?!

[posted]

Threads like these and the disgusting language prove that of all those on picket lines, there is likely a small yet significant percentage in each workplace that are only continuing to strike because of the extreme amongst the more civilised.

The fear of being bullied, called out, ostracised and worse all for not towing the party line rather than what they feel is right.

On this thread alone - and I know people are worse online than in real life when they’re just minnows - I’ve seen people use words like dickheads, c***s, turd and on another thread sc*bs or (sausage chips and beans - trying to be smart).

It’s this extreme minority that becomes a crutch for potentially false support or people striking but still feeling s**t about it rather than content that they’ve done the right thing by withdrawing their labour for the day.

[aiden01]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

Modernisation is not sacking 25,000 workers and replacing them with agency and new starters on 20% less terms and conditions. That's simply cost cutting to extract more profit for shareholders. There's absolutely nothing progressive about it. The unions place is to represent us as a collective, through a democratic process. We are the union. It's not a handful of people separate from us.

Which came first, the strikes and the union's unwillingness to engage with the company on the change they wanted, or the job losses?

Well...well thats quite a take

The dispute started because we dare ask for a decent pay rise in April

Royal Mail THEN offered a subpar pay rise, nowhere near enough at the time let alone now with higher inflation, with a host of strings attached due in part because they didnt like that their car crash revision plan went tits up as expected. This was their 'revenge'. They were already trotting out the lines that they hadnt saved enough from the revisions. Who knew that just cutting frames and making the rest of the rounds massively unachievable wouldnt work? All of us knew.

When this stinking offer wasnt immediately and thankfully accepted - they decided to impose the 2% anyway

Royal Mail escalated this dispute. The dispute didnt start on change. It started on pay. Royal Mail turned it into 'pay for change'.

Do you think we should have accepted the very first 'offer' RM made in the summer?!

Why did cwu fall for the trap of 'pay for change' when we clearly voted for a no strings payrise??

[guardianangel]

What’s most worrying is this seems to suggest an acceptance that next weeks strikes will be going ahead and no effort is being put into solving it. Get the feeling Thompson and Royal Mail are going to ride the next 4 weeks out then they have pretty much won.

I do understand that Christmas is the busiest time, but I really think this belief that once its over, that's it, is partly nonsense. No company can sustain long-term disruption. No customer wants to use a company that's subject to it.

Your right 100%,when there is train strikes now most people arranges to work from home the only losers are the train bosses,same with royal mail ,people will not deal with long term disruption and find alternatives ,we may suffer loss of pay even redundancies but what i have found having been made redundant on numerous occasions is the real workers will always find other jobs,the only losers in this strike will be the bosses and shareholders ,don't matter how much they give it the big one i am not afraid and will never surrender to slave labour and low pay so bring it on.

[Wullie10]

It's obvious they'll be no agreement and he has already made up his mind what will happen in 2 months or so. As people have said he is a classic narcissist. He may be sacked eventually but that won't bother him. The strikes have been a absolute disaster in my opinion when I saw postman working Sundays to make up lost wages. Going on strike because one of the million reasons we are told that are going to happen was compulsory Sundays. Didn't make any sense at all. Now like Putin another narcissist he's just stoking his ego and playing games without any chance of peace. O see no way out to be honest.

[sindba]

Threads like these and the disgusting language prove that of all those on picket lines, there is likely a small yet significant percentage in each workplace that are only continuing to strike because of the extreme amongst the more civilised.

The fear of being bullied, called out, ostracised and worse all for not towing the party line rather than what they feel is right.

On this thread alone - and I know people are worse online than in real life when they’re just minnows - I’ve seen people use words like dickheads, c***s, turd and on another thread sc*bs or (sausage chips and beans - trying to be smart).

It’s this extreme minority that becomes a crutch for potentially false support or people striking but still feeling s**t about it rather than content that they’ve done the right thing by withdrawing their labour for the day.

Um. Have you even stepped foot in a delivery office recently?

1) the language is a LOT more industrial than you'll hear on here.
2) solidarity is rock solid and determination is increasing. It's not extreme, it's how we all feel. We hate how badly we're being treated.
3) Streak breakers are known, but just get on with their job. We're too bloody busy and exhausted for politics talk. There's hardly any of them anyway.
4) it's not a minority pissed off. It's pretty much every postie in this country.

You seem to have a low opinion of postal workers.

[Acca Dacca]

Why did cwu fall for the trap of 'pay for change' when we clearly voted for a no strings payrise??

Thats a different argument

The guy aboves argument is we should have accepted what was on offer in the summer as if it was a good palatable offer on the table.

[Wullie10]

It's obvious they'll be no agreement and he has already made up his mind what will happen in 2 months or so. As people have said he is a classic narcissist. He may be sacked eventually but that won't bother him. The strikes have been a absolute disaster in my opinion when I saw postman working Sundays to make up lost wages. Going on strike because one of the million reasons we are told that was going to happen was compulsory Sundays. Didn't make any sense at all. Now like Putin another narcissist he's just stoking his ego and playing games without any chance of peace. I see no way out to be honest. The union said no one will be left behind. Anyone who's ever been on strike before knows they'll be winners and loosers

[aiden01]

It's obvious they'll be no agreement and he has already made up his mind what will happen in 2 months or so. As people have said he is a classic narcissist. He may be sacked eventually but that won't bother him. The strikes have been a absolute disaster in my opinion when I saw postman working Sundays to make up lost wages. Going on strike because one of the million reasons we are told that are going to happen was compulsory Sundays. Didn't make any sense at all. Now like Putin another narcissist he's just stoking his ego and playing games without any chance of peace. O see no way out to be honest.

Lots of postie's work sundays as part of their duty.

[aiden01]

Why did cwu fall for the trap of 'pay for change' when we clearly voted for a no strings payrise??

Thats a different argument

The guy aboves argument is we should have accepted what was on offer in the summer as if it was a good palatable offer on the table.

True. But still does'nt answer why cwu fell for the trap of pay for change. an then god know's how much 2nd ballot on just change cost scarey.

[wandle]

Manager has already told me he will bring the parcels to me next Wednesday and Thursday.
Will be the same area I deliver to now. 40/50 parcels for a fair days pay. Suits me

You must know that everybody you tell that you are breaking the strike is thinking you are an untrustworthy snide turd ? Even if they say they understand your “situation”, they’ll be thinking different.

As far as I’m aware nobody knows. Apart from my manager. It’s nobody else’s business really.

Even if you are on good terms with your manager, you’re now his bitch, as he’ll always know that one thing about you and could spill the beans to your colleagues at any time, if he chooses. People talk, sometimes unguardedly, and don’t know they’ve been overheard.
Ask a certain X Factor presenter…