Lockout.

[Clappedoutpostie]

I think we overestimate agency staff, and competition.

Yep that’s part of the company’s propaganda machine. The reality is that most RM staff would be expected to do double what an agency person does for their 8 hours pay.

[stevejm]

What’s most worrying is this seems to suggest an acceptance that next weeks strikes will be going ahead and no effort is being put into solving it. Get the feeling Thompson and Royal Mail are going to ride the next 4 weeks out then they have pretty much won.

That is the impression I get as well. Royal Mail have already given their "final offer" and we have already been on strike Black Friday. The CWU said that it would probably be a long dispute. We have had posties going in this week because they really can't afford the 2 day strikes (wheres the strike fund CWU??) and imho a 2 day strike is nowhere near enough to bring the company back to the bargaining table anyway. I'm probably going to get shot down by saying this during a cost of living crisis but as a veteran of many disputes in the past, its the truth.

Because the biggest difference now is that Royal Mail can call upon an army of agency workers to work during the strike and they have been using them every day for the last 3 months. Unfortunately this seriously weakens our bargaining position to the extent where the company are now asking for 10,000 possible redundancies at a time when they have been signing up agency staff onto Royal Mail's books. And I should mention that many of those also have contracts whereby they have to work a Sunday.... I have been saying for years what the CWU should do is something that they really are not prepared to do. They should get rid of some of the upper tiers of CWU reps and instead spend that money on a getting themselves a really good crack legal team because they might find that they can take Royal Mail to the cleaners with some of the things that have been going on. If you don't believe me just look at some of the gaffs that the CWU have made in the past

How much cwu subs money do you pay a week? A year? If the hypothetically returned every single penny you've paid them in the last year how much would that amount to £200?? And what would the CWU operate on? Diesel fumes?
A decent strike fund needs funding! Either by higher subs or by you! Back in the day it was called putting money aside for a rainy day.

[rambo1]

RM would have had to arranged transportation for them as most people's car insurance policy will only cover them to their REGULAR place of work

Do you really think any Strike Breakers are going to give a shite about that (unless of course they can use it as an excuse).

There's enough people out there (not suggesting they're Royal Mail Staff) who drive pissed ... drugged up .... texting on their phones .... driving without Business Insurance is small fry! Know anyone that's ever been done for it?

You don't get done for it. It's not an offence. If you have an accident or your car gets broken into with bags of mail or pkts in it, then your insurance won't pay up. That's the only way you'd ' get done' .

[hazzeem025]

Manager has already told me he will bring the parcels to me next Wednesday and Thursday.
Will be the same area I deliver to now. 40/50 parcels for a fair days pay. Suits me

You must know that everybody you tell that you are breaking the strike is thinking you are an untrustworthy snide turd ? Even if they say they understand your “situation”, they’ll be thinking different.

As far as I’m aware nobody knows. Apart from my manager. It’s nobody else’s business really.

Absolute, spineless coward. Haven't even got the guts to cross a picket line.

[wookie]

Manager has already told me he will bring the parcels to me next Wednesday and Thursday.
Will be the same area I deliver to now. 40/50 parcels for a fair days pay. Suits me

You know as well as I do that is not enough work for a fair days pay of 7/8 hours. You friends/colleagues most probably know you're working, go to work and get the parcels instead hiding.

[arsenalbob]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

None. They want the union removed from the workplace, later start times, worse terms for sick absence and redundancies. They’ve not budged on any of these so it’s a fight to the death. Either the union will be finished or the current RM board and CEO will go.

[Binsey]

[quote=stevejm post_id=1014581 time=1669491063 user_id=89696]
[quote=postslippete post_id=1014543 time=1669487520 user_id=65005]
[quote=toonshola post_id=1014451 time=1669474972 user_id=29169]
What’s most worrying is this seems to suggest an acceptance that next weeks strikes will be going ahead and no effort is being put into solving it. Get the feeling Thompson and Royal Mail are going to ride the next 4 weeks out then they have pretty much won.
[/quote]



That is the impression I get as well. Royal Mail have already given their "final offer" and we have already been on strike Black Friday. The CWU said that it would probably be a long dispute. We have had posties going in this week because they really can't afford the 2 day strikes [b](wheres the strike fund CWU??)[/b] and imho a 2 day strike is nowhere near enough to bring the company back to the bargaining table anyway. I'm probably going to get shot down by saying this during a cost of living crisis but as a veteran of many disputes in the past, its the truth.

Because the biggest difference now is that Royal Mail can call upon an army of agency workers to work during the strike and they have been using them every day for the last 3 months. Unfortunately this seriously weakens our bargaining position to the extent where the company are now asking for 10,000 possible redundancies at a time when they have been signing up agency staff onto Royal Mail's books. And I should mention that many of those also have contracts whereby they have to work a Sunday.... I have been saying for years what the CWU should do is something that they really are not prepared to do. They should get rid of some of the upper tiers of CWU reps and instead spend that money on a getting themselves a really good crack legal team because they might find that they can take Royal Mail to the cleaners with some of the things that have been going on. If you don't believe me just look at some of the gaffs that the CWU have made in the past
[/quote]

How much cwu subs money do you pay a week? A year? If the hypothetically returned every single penny you've paid them in the last year how much would that amount to £200?? And what would the CWU operate on? Diesel fumes?
A decent strike fund needs funding! Either by higher subs or by you! Back in the day it was called putting money aside for a rainy day.
[/quote]

Not really the Union has got very bloated.
Every Tom , Dick and Sally seems to have a National Officer these days.

[einastronaut]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

[SimonLS]

Angard worker here. Not working strike days on principle. But not been offered shifts this week anyway. Or for the last month. And we are all on maybe one shift a week. So not sure if there’s some cunning ‘we don’t use casuals much’ thing going on.
Only temps getting shifts are RM Xmas casuals.

[Halfhappy]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

Modernisation is not sacking 25,000 workers and replacing them with agency and new starters on 20% less terms and conditions. That's simply cost cutting to extract more profit for shareholders. There's absolutely nothing progressive about it. The unions place is to represent us as a collective, through a democratic process. We are the union. It's not a handful of people separate from us.

[Halfhappy]

There's one agenda, and it's break this union so they can do whatever they want, without any resistance, or pushback. You may think they're doing that now, they're not. The evidence for this is in the the last offer which stops us being balloted again. If the threat of a union or a strike is nothing, why include that? Some people can't see the wood for trees.

[Caesar]

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Totally agree.

[einastronaut]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

Modernisation is not sacking 25,000 workers and replacing them with agency and new starters on 20% less terms and conditions. That's simply cost cutting to extract more profit for shareholders. There's absolutely nothing progressive about it. The unions place is to represent us as a collective, through a democratic process. We are the union. It's not a handful of people separate from us.

Which came first, the strikes and the union's unwillingness to engage with the company on the change they wanted, or the job losses?

[Halfhappy]

Any one who works through strike ,should be ashamed
FACT

Why strike for something you don't believe in? That's the crux of it for a lot of people, not the money.

If it feels wrong to an individual and counterproductive to their cause, they should only feel shame for following the herd off the proverbial cliff edge.

A lot of people don't agree with the Union's handling of this dispute. Due to their hubris and naivety, the strikes thus far have yielded nothing but job losses, lost pay, torn up agreements and the same deal members were offered 6 months ago, except no longer back dated. The Union have spaffed their mandate up the wall by refusing, for months, to yield any ground on what was already lost and indefensible and instead sticking to their farcical "we reject the company's proposed changes and we'll only discuss our 'alternative business plan', but please be so kind as to not ask us what that is because we don't actually have one" charade.

There was a compromise available in there that didn't involve the Union destroying itself like this, where change was accepted but the effects mitigated for a superior pay deal and the protection of other terms. Now, many months in, most members now see that the Union have overplayed their hand and all but lost this dispute.

They have no end game and no plan. If they do, what is it? What are people now supposed to be striking for?

Which of RMs previous proposals/offers would you have taken?

Only the elements that were quite clearly already in the offing; later starts and infrequent/voluntary Sunday working. Whether anyone particularly likes the idea of either is almost moot, because they were already happening and will continue to happen, regardless of Union consent. It's the company's prerogative to determine strategy and they've been building towards that for years. A Union's purpose is not really to block any and all efforts to modernize, but to get the best terms within any change and negotiate mitigation for any damaging effects on members - via accomodation and compensatory pay. Many also seem to recognize that some reform to sick pay that wasn't quite so easy to abuse was acceptable; maybe not to the extent that the company proposed, but a negotiated compromise.

Modernisation is not sacking 25,000 workers and replacing them with agency and new starters on 20% less terms and conditions. That's simply cost cutting to extract more profit for shareholders. There's absolutely nothing progressive about it. The unions place is to represent us as a collective, through a democratic process. We are the union. It's not a handful of people separate from us.

Which came first, the strikes and the union's unwillingness to engage with the company on the change they wanted, or the job losses?

I think it was a 2% imposed pay rise.

[CRIBMAD]

Manager has already told me he will bring the parcels to me next Wednesday and Thursday.
Will be the same area I deliver to now. 40/50 parcels for a fair days pay. Suits me

You must know that everybody you tell that you are breaking the strike is thinking you are an untrustworthy snide turd ? Even if they say they understand your “situation”, they’ll be thinking different.

As far as I’m aware nobody knows. Apart from my manager. It’s nobody else’s business really.

Absolute, spineless coward. Haven't even got the guts to cross a picket line.

TURD ? thats being unfair to a turd you are worse than a turd !