Thompson - New agreement sent to CWU

[twoloops]

f**k the talks & Simon we strike Thursday & Friday back the union

[k979aaa]

Well if its that good post it on here

[Murdoch]

Is that you Simon ?

If you disagree, please further the discussion and say why.

How do you see the dispute unfolding?

[k979aaa]

The only way to negotiate with dictators is to string them up by the balls at the nearest petrol station like Mussolini

[Schiff]

I won't vote to accept any "deal" that isn't at least an inflation based pay rise with extra for any changes that they want. I'm happy to keep striking unless we get that. The union's only mandate from members is to achieve a no strings pay deal.

So you won't accept any deal then.

That's the reality.

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

[derekm]

Here we go again with all the negative Nellies, look simple slyman has little to no interest in a deal, except the one in which he royally shafts you. Now maybe it is the "Deal of the century" but i suspect not, the union dont have to vote on every daft idea put forward by the CEO and the fact he calls it a great deal should be enough to let you know its probably crap, "I was expecting to just dot the i and cross the Ts" was his expectation this morning and the fact somebody disagreed with him was enough to have him complain about being ranted at. Surrounding yourself with yes men would lead to this sort of outlook and if he wants to know what a rant is have a look at this. Showing you what he has proposed without giving the union the opportunity to share it with the membership first would be very unprofessional but totally like this narcissist as he thinks he will be getting in the good books again, please dont engage with this nonsense all you are doing is feeding his ego and thats what he thrives on. It really has come down to trying to negotiate with a 5yr old and everytime he hears something he doesnt like its toys out of the pram time and slam the bedroom door shut. Ignore him as without the adoration he feeds on (he does believe any engagement as adoration) he cant survive for long.

[Murdoch]

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

See, I respect every person's right to take this as far as they have to, and I respect the Union's principled stance on pretty much everything.

But what is concerning, is the outcome of this dispute if we cannot reach a deal. Everybody is in a different situation, people have mortgages to pay, and families to feed, there is a hierarchy of needs, and principles go out the window as soon as Food, Shelter, Warmth go scarce.

That's why many people won't be able to take it as far as others would.

[k979aaa]

I won't vote to accept any "deal" that isn't at least an inflation based pay rise with extra for any changes that they want. I'm happy to keep striking unless we get that. The union's only mandate from members is to achieve a no strings pay deal.

So you won't accept any deal then.

That's the reality.

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

Well it is R/M policy of dither and delay take it or nothing policy it's their own bloody fault lead by a dictator and failed boss of test and trace £37 billion pounds of our money for nothing. He is very good at losing money is he not probably get the next top job in the NHS or Defence.

[Murdoch]

Here we go again with all the negative Nellies, look simple slyman has little to no interest in a deal, except the one in which he royally shafts you. Now maybe it is the "Deal of the century" but i suspect not, the union dont have to vote on every daft idea put forward by the CEO and the fact he calls it a great deal should be enough to let you know its probably crap, "I was expecting to just dot the i and cross the Ts" was his expectation this morning and the fact somebody disagreed with him was enough to have him complain about being ranted at. Surrounding yourself with yes men would lead to this sort of outlook and if he wants to know what a rant is have a look at this. Showing you what he has proposed without giving the union the opportunity to share it with the membership first would be very unprofessional but totally like this narcissist as he thinks he will be getting in the good books again, please dont engage with this nonsense all you are doing is feeding his ego and thats what he thrives on. It really has come down to trying to negotiate with a 5yr old and everytime he hears something he doesnt like its toys out of the pram time and slam the bedroom door shut. Ignore him as without the adoration he feeds on (he does believe any engagement as adoration) he cant survive for long.

Simon literally could be any CEO, he's just a symptom of a system that's specifically designed for people like him to flourish. Personally, I'd never engage with the workplace app.

[Schiff]

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

See, I respect every person's right to take this as far as they have to, and I respect the Union's principled stance on pretty much everything.

But what is concerning, is the outcome of this dispute if we cannot reach a deal. Everybody is in a different situation, people have mortgages to pay, and families to feed, there is a hierarchy of needs, and principles go out the window as soon as Food, Shelter, Warmth go scarce.

That's why many people won't be able to take it as far as others would.

Until there is an offer that the union believes that more than half of the members will accept then the dispute and strikes will continue. Our individual views are completely irrelevant.

[Schiff]

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

See, I respect every person's right to take this as far as they have to, and I respect the Union's principled stance on pretty much everything.

But what is concerning, is the outcome of this dispute if we cannot reach a deal. Everybody is in a different situation, people have mortgages to pay, and families to feed, there is a hierarchy of needs, and principles go out the window as soon as Food, Shelter, Warmth go scarce.

That's why many people won't be able to take it as far as others would.

Until there is an offer that the union believes that more than half of the members will accept then the dispute and strikes will continue. Our individual views are completely irrelevant. Simon has created this situation by proposing so much that crosses different red lines for so many people.

[k979aaa]

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

See, I respect every person's right to take this as far as they have to, and I respect the Union's principled stance on pretty much everything.

But what is concerning, is the outcome of this dispute if we cannot reach a deal. Everybody is in a different situation, people have mortgages to pay, and families to feed, there is a hierarchy of needs, and principles go out the window as soon as Food, Shelter, Warmth go scarce.

That's why many people won't be able to take it as far as others would.

Well two options fight and stay or leave.
Not that this is of our own making the CWU or the average postman/woman this is the making of one sad man who the world is not enough for him if you don't stand up to these parasites on humanity when will you.
Because if we or you don't do it now it will be on our heads of why by our inactions that the people who fallow us and that of our children will judge us all by!
The time for action is now!

[Murdoch]

Until there is an offer that the union believes that more than half of the members will accept then the dispute and strikes will continue. Our individual views are completely irrelevant.

That's completely contradictory, how on earth will they know what we will accept if we don't express our individual views?

Our individual views are far from irrelevant.

[freespeech]

I won't vote to accept any "deal" that isn't at least an inflation based pay rise with extra for any changes that they want. I'm happy to keep striking unless we get that. The union's only mandate from members is to achieve a no strings pay deal.

So you won't accept any deal then.

That's the reality.

I won't accept any agreement that contravenes my personal red lines. Other people have their own red lines. These may be finish times, Sunday working, commit to deliver etc.
The union need to reach an agreement that more than half of the members will vote to accept. They clearly don't think that they are anywhere near that point yet.

Well it is R/M policy of dither and delay take it or nothing policy it's their own bloody fault lead by a dictator and failed boss of test and trace £37 billion pounds of our money for nothing. He is very good at losing money is he not probably get the next top job in the NHS or Defence.

That may well be the case but he has run rings around the CWU in this dispute. Loads of things he wants have either started (VR's) or will start (new absence process from April). The 2% imposed will be the only no strings deal we see.

[einastronaut]

Obviously to get a sensible deal that it can present to its members or are you happy to bend over and accept every change that Royal Mail proposes ?

What you have to realise is, the changes are happening with our without the union. Most of the changes are structural, which they are powerless to stop.

On a personal level, later start times don't affect me much, my office will be less than an hour later, Sunday working, my office isn't listed as a Sunday Hub (most aren't).

The Parcel Hub plan cannot be stopped, they spent hundreds of millions on that, and they're building out a separate parcel network regardless. I don't think it's a good idea, it'll f**k over postal services in the medium to long term, but they're doing it regardless.

Things like, new starts on worse contracts it's bullshit, but they're already doing that, as are they increasing the number of owner drivers.

People are biting their hands off for the new reduced redundancy terms, so they're doing that too.

Annualised hours, and flexi hours, commit to deliver, I'd have to see some mitigation on that, but the Union said sweet f**k all about that during their live thing the other day. So I have no idea where we stand on that.

In short, there is no sensible deal. The Union have backed themselves into a corner, where neither they or their members will accept a deal.

Royal Mail have totally outplayed us, and people need to accept that reality.

This.

It's this reality that the Union (and the more militant wing of its membership) seem incapable of grasping, to the detriment of its other members - those that accepted a certain degree of change would need to be yielded in order to leverage other concessions. Now the Union has overplayed its hand and they have nothing left with which to leverage any concessions.

Realism early on could have secured a (perhaps only modestly) improved deal for ceding ground on later starts and sunday working. Realism early on wouldn't have given them carte blanche to serve notice on all previous agreements.

The strikes have already cost us all those previous agreements and accords. They've already cost us 10,000 jobs. Where to next?

It's been asked for many months now, but what is the Union's end game? No pay deal and the changes imposed unilaterally anyway? Another 10,000 jobs? What sort of win is there to be had? So far, the Union's gameplan only facilitates and accelerates the company's long term goals of, among others, reducing (what are now) legacy contracts in a protracted fire and rehire. If the Union thinks it can "win" from here, then they're simply not living in the real world.