If you accept the deal then don't moan

[postslippete]

How I see it is you have two choices. You can vote yes and vote for a deal more than likely has majority of the changes we have striked against but with the lump sum added on there and more or less guaranteed to save your job (for now). It renders the strikes mostly ineffective bar the allowances still being there (which majority don't even get), Sundays are still off, and compulsory redundancies. However, let's be honest on that last point, you definitely have a hell of a lot more that have left than the initial 10,000 so wouldn't even call that a victory.

Or go the no option in hopes of getting a better deal which bare in mind this is the only time out of the entire dispute the union has put forward a deal and are now touting the horn that RM is in big financial trouble. Those that are saying no also still have to deal with the same people negotiating a deal and organising strike action that is if they will at this point. You'd still be striking under their banner even if you don't trust them at this point.

Every deal I've seen so far is either somewhat the same deal as the last if not worse if going down to the detail of it. They haven't actually dropped much if not anything at all even with the strikes and getting bashed by the committee. Their stance still hasn't changed. The only people who have changed is the union themselves. It seems more obvious after the Joint Statement so whatever they've find out during them talks at the time had spooked them.

I wouldn't call them who vote yes idiots or say they have no right to moan, they are just seeing this is the only chance the union has with their best deal. It's the only significant time the union has after nearly a year into this dispute even put an agreement forward. I don't think after all this time the union would put this forward if they didn't think this is the best they we're going to get. Would be a collective waste of time on their end and be embarrassing to go on camera and just be like, "here, this is s**t please vote no on it so can wait another two weeks." Think this deal will be this will be the final deal before s**t hits the fan. All the changes they've forced in I can't see them reversing hence why union has basically U-turned on such as the start times being moved in certain units. The likelihood we vote no, think the EA will go into overtime and blitz though the changes anyways, give a 2% imposed pay deal and it will be that.

I have respect for those that chose to continue to us their right to vote and vote no but just don't see any progress being made after this point from both company and the union.

You sound like you have made fair point - but how can we ever trust the Royal Mail board?


They made record profits last year, gave most of it away to shareholders and awarded themselves big bonuses. Then they spent quite a few million upgrading all the Linos salaries and called them COMs and gave them all bonuses for working during our strike and working on Sundays. But everything that the company has said through the media channels doesn't seem to make sense. For example, they said that they might have to make 10,000 compulsory redundancies before then recruiting over 11,000 overpaid and under-utilised agency workers before Xmas? Then there's the £1.7 billion war-chest which they have since said it was in loans that was available.

All this, and then in the 2nd Select Committee where Keith Williams eventually bothered to turn up made an announcement that he had already spoke to Dave Ward about the company's perilous financial situation the week before. None of us knew that Dave Ward had spoken to him until that Select Committee or that the company's finances were in dire straits. They make all that profit and then within a few months deliberately run it into the ground so we are losing over a million pounds a day? None of the Union leaders seem ecstatic about this agreement because otherwise they would be shouting it from the rooftops. I believe this PEC meeting on Friday is because they want to sound it out amongst their reps first. How can we polish this massive turd of an agreement with Royal Mail as best as we can for the members?

[FirstPost]

If it gets voted in I hope all senior top dogs of CWU resign immediately, not up to the job

[needadvice]

I think we will get more respect by rejecting the deal and going against the cwu and rm, rather than cwu alone rejecting the deal

[Shadedpostie]

How I see it is you have two choices. You can vote yes and vote for a deal more than likely has majority of the changes we have striked against but with the lump sum added on there and more or less guaranteed to save your job (for now). It renders the strikes mostly ineffective bar the allowances still being there (which majority don't even get), Sundays are still off, and compulsory redundancies. However, let's be honest on that last point, you definitely have a hell of a lot more that have left than the initial 10,000 so wouldn't even call that a victory.

Or go the no option in hopes of getting a better deal which bare in mind this is the only time out of the entire dispute the union has put forward a deal and are now touting the horn that RM is in big financial trouble. Those that are saying no also still have to deal with the same people negotiating a deal and organising strike action that is if they will at this point. You'd still be striking under their banner even if you don't trust them at this point.

Every deal I've seen so far is either somewhat the same deal as the last if not worse if going down to the detail of it. They haven't actually dropped much if not anything at all even with the strikes and getting bashed by the committee. Their stance still hasn't changed. The only people who have changed is the union themselves. It seems more obvious after the Joint Statement so whatever they've find out during them talks at the time had spooked them.

I wouldn't call them who vote yes idiots or say they have no right to moan, they are just seeing this is the only chance the union has with their best deal. It's the only significant time the union has after nearly a year into this dispute even put an agreement forward. I don't think after all this time the union would put this forward if they didn't think this is the best they we're going to get. Would be a collective waste of time on their end and be embarrassing to go on camera and just be like, "here, this is s**t please vote no on it so can wait another two weeks." Think this deal will be this will be the final deal before s**t hits the fan. All the changes they've forced in I can't see them reversing hence why union has basically U-turned on such as the start times being moved in certain units. The likelihood we vote no, think the EA will go into overtime and blitz though the changes anyways, give a 2% imposed pay deal and it will be that.

I have respect for those that chose to continue to us their right to vote and vote no but just don't see any progress being made after this point from both company and the union.

You sound like you have made fair point - but how can we ever trust the Royal Mail board?


They made record profits last year, gave most of it away to shareholders and awarded themselves big bonuses. Then they spent quite a few million upgrading all the Linos salaries and called them COMs and gave them all bonuses for working during our strike and working on Sundays. But everything that the company has said through the media channels doesn't seem to make sense. For example, they said that they might have to make 10,000 compulsory redundancies before then recruiting over 11,000 overpaid and under-utilised agency workers before Xmas? Then there's the £1.7 billion war-chest which they have since said it was in loans that was available.

All this, and then in the 2nd Select Committee where Keith Williams eventually bothered to turn up made an announcement that he had already spoke to Dave Ward about the company's perilous financial situation the week before. None of us knew that Dave Ward had spoken to him until that Select Committee or that the company's finances were in dire straits. They make all that profit and then within a few months deliberately run it into the ground so we are losing over a million pounds a day? None of the Union leaders seem ecstatic about this agreement because otherwise they would be shouting it from the rooftops. I believe this PEC meeting on Friday is because they want to sound it out amongst their reps first. How can we polish this massive turd of an agreement with Royal Mail as best as we can for the members?

Think that will always be the problem with this entire dispute after so long. No matter what the results be after this whole thing, the trust is no longer gonna be there with management. How they have handled this is pretty pathetic I think majority can agree on that no matter what side of fence you now sit on.

Listening to both sides for so long I think has caused a lot of toxicity and some people just can't be reasoned with, hence some of the name calling on here or drama on picket lines. You have the senior management bashing the hell outta union saying they were "destroying Christmas" despite leaving thousands of parcels and letters to rot whilst as you say hiring people that don't give a s**t about the quality of service. Then, you have union after so long tell us that company can afford this and that and saying the attacks on members can't continue. But, then completely ghost members online for months while said attacks are happening. Or worse, trolling people on Twitter for voicing their concerns on progress on talks. It's an embarrassment and no wonder people are giving up or looking elsewhere.

The true real question is who do you choose to put your trust in at this point. You have managers and a board that are storming through these changes, even if it means a s**t service overall long as it's cost saving. Then, you have a union that went from no strings, to near enough sounding like RM but still saying they are here to protect jobs. The constant win the ballot, win the dispute like propaganda I think has worked against them I reckon. The dangers of social media too since goes into people's heads way too easy. The constant dump of information will influence people's minds, especially for this long. So not everyone is going to sway their opinions on that easily unless they have proof.

Think honestly, the union needs to highlight what exactly the ramifications are if we end up striking, the actual financial situation of the company of they are now saying they are in the s**t, and what they have put on the table since this thing has started. Then, I think people will know whether they have tried or not for sure. They have done poorly on communicating with it's members. They talk a lot about trust in the union and solidarity but all that is a two way stream. Time to start trusting your members.

[sindba]

Dangle a worm and one always get a bite or two

What's gone wrong in your life that made you want to troll a postal workers forum?

I can think of better ways to spend my time, but am sorry you don't.

[Wolf91]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Only seems to ‘cross a line’ if you say something the usual suspects don’t like. That’s why I don’t comment too much. They hijack every thread then report you for disagreeing with them

[aiden01]

its so depressing the amount of people on here that cant wait to bend over and take whatever RM want to give them , i would say grow a pair but that's never going to happen. R.I.P. posties jobs as we know it , spineless !

Nobody is bending over, I've no idea why you have to use such extreme rhetoric.
You show a total lack of respect for our colleagues who sacrificed a lot to support this Strike.

Most Posties ( in my office anyway ) did not sacrifice a lot to support this strike .
They worked OT and days off after attending the picket line. Some brought in their family clear backlog.
I do not see where most lost money.
Some did.
It's still the same, moaning but continuing to work over, come in earlies, work every day off... Even their holidays.

They lost money by striking ffs.

[aiden01]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Yes truth always hurts

WOW another new poster lol the management must be getting desperate - check that iP address moderator i bet hes got quite a few ids !

Do you ever give up no doubt im on your banned list as you hav'nt responded to what i asked you earlier about.people bending over an being spineless yet you were asking questions about how to get ihr.

[aiden01]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

I'll vote NO and keep my dignity and will never be downtrodden,not by anyone,if that meant losing money or my job so be it.

Are you still in cwu or joined unison yet ffs same s**t everyday.

[aiden01]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Only seems to ‘cross a line’ if you say something the usual suspects don’t like. That’s why I don’t comment too much. They hijack every thread then report you for disagreeing with them

Name who you mean??

[Wolf91]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Only seems to ‘cross a line’ if you say something the usual suspects don’t like. That’s why I don’t comment too much. They hijack every thread then report you for disagreeing with them

Name who you mean??

Not you, don’t worry. I think we all know who I mean, the usual 3-4 suspects.

[guardianangel]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

I'll vote NO and keep my dignity and will never be downtrodden,not by anyone,if that meant losing money or my job so be it.

Are you still in cwu or joined unison yet ffs same s**t everyday.

Still voting NO

[LouBarlow]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Yes truth always hurts

WOW another new poster lol the management must be getting desperate - check that iP address moderator i bet hes got quite a few ids !

He signed up in 2011. Yeah a ‘new poster’ ‘manager’. People don’t agree with you. Get over it.

Always seem to be on a certain side Lou dont you?

Fresh after defending a poster who said that postal workers dont deserve more than offered and probably less - you are now on here picking apart someone who has criticised a troll saying that most union members, which most on this forum are, are morons

Coming on here posting that most union members are morons is trolling. Get over it Lou.

You are one of the first to cry on here about being labelled a manager etc on here - you dont do yourself any favours

Just admit you presumed he was a new member, then were made to look silly when it turns out he signed up over 10 years ago lol. I understand you being embarrassed about it, but don’t take it out on me by getting aggressive.

Lou Barlow one of the biggest trolls on CWU Facebook in case you didnt know !

Yeah, I’m going to need to see receipts on that one as I’m not even on Facebook. Post proof or remove your litigious comment please.

[scotchy1962]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Yes truth always hurts

WOW another new poster lol the management must be getting desperate - check that iP address moderator i bet hes got quite a few ids !

He signed up in 2011. Yeah a ‘new poster’ ‘manager’. People don’t agree with you. Get over it.

Always seem to be on a certain side Lou dont you?

Fresh after defending a poster who said that postal workers dont deserve more than offered and probably less - you are now on here picking apart someone who has criticised a troll saying that most union members, which most on this forum are, are morons

Coming on here posting that most union members are morons is trolling. Get over it Lou.

You are one of the first to cry on here about being labelled a manager etc on here - you dont do yourself any favours

Just admit you presumed he was a new member, then were made to look silly when it turns out he signed up over 10 years ago lol. I understand you being embarrassed about it, but don’t take it out on me by getting aggressive.

Lou Barlow one of the biggest trolls on CWU Facebook in case you didnt know !

Yeah, I’m going to need to see receipts on that one as I’m not even on Facebook. Post proof or remove your litigious comment please.

So this is where we have gotten too! A debate on a agreement (which nobody has a clue whats on it as it hasnt been released) ends in a accusation of a comment worthy of a court case!
I thought we were all big boys and girls on here with thick enough skin to cope with the debate.... but we arent as can be seen. Perhaps if you cant cope with comments it would be best not to.
And before you come back with the self entitled "i am allowed to have my say and have a opinion" thats not what i said, we are all different and some people cope with a bit of back and forth and take it on the chin with no effect on them, others dont and get themselves in a state which leads to all sorts of stupid things.
I think i have said before that social media is the pariah of modern society and causes probably more bad than good, but its here to stay so what do you do but try to embrace it. Think about what you write and dont take it to seriously.

[LouBarlow]

Only a moron would vote no, but then most union members are morons.
Work out how much you have paid in subs for what you will get for nothing?

Sorry to add to your workloads Mods, but this has got to cross a line.

Yes truth always hurts

WOW another new poster lol the management must be getting desperate - check that iP address moderator i bet hes got quite a few ids !

He signed up in 2011. Yeah a ‘new poster’ ‘manager’. People don’t agree with you. Get over it.

Always seem to be on a certain side Lou dont you?

Fresh after defending a poster who said that postal workers dont deserve more than offered and probably less - you are now on here picking apart someone who has criticised a troll saying that most union members, which most on this forum are, are morons

Coming on here posting that most union members are morons is trolling. Get over it Lou.

You are one of the first to cry on here about being labelled a manager etc on here - you dont do yourself any favours

Just admit you presumed he was a new member, then were made to look silly when it turns out he signed up over 10 years ago lol. I understand you being embarrassed about it, but don’t take it out on me by getting aggressive.

Lou Barlow one of the biggest trolls on CWU Facebook in case you didnt know !

Yeah, I’m going to need to see receipts on that one as I’m not even on Facebook. Post proof or remove your litigious comment please.

So this is where we have gotten too! A debate on a agreement (which nobody has a clue whats on it as it hasnt been released) ends in a accusation of a comment worthy of a court case!
I thought we were all big boys and girls on here with thick enough skin to cope with the debate.... but we arent as can be seen. Perhaps if you cant cope with comments it would be best not to.
And before you come back with the self entitled "i am allowed to have my say and have a opinion" thats not what i said, we are all different and some people cope with a bit of back and forth and take it on the chin with no effect on them, others dont and get themselves in a state which leads to all sorts of stupid things.
I think i have said before that social media is the pariah of modern society and causes probably more bad than good, but its here to stay so what do you do but try to embrace it. Think about what you write and dont take it to seriously.

I think what happens on this forum should stay on this forum, yes. It goes beyond banter when maliciously accused of something elsewhere with absolutely zero evidence to prove it. That isn’t debating, it is slander.

I also made no mention of court cases. I referred to the comment as litigious which technically it is.