Lost Parcel so far

[Skyliner]

Good afternoon everyone,

I would like to describe my case from the scope of a customer. The purpose of this is improvement as well as to find my lost documents / parcel.

One friend of mine posts me some documents with Signed for delivery from London to Cardiff on the 13th of August. The receipt sais "We aim to deliver next working day" however the lovely advisor from Post Office in London advised us 2-3 working days. Everything ok so far, no rush anyway.

Two days later (15/08) my friend finds out from the receipt that she has used a wrong postcode and address number to be delivered and calls me to let me know. I called immediately Royal Mail to let them know too and the response that I received was " there's nothing we can do, the item is not tracked". I explained that the parcel is signed for and asked to sent it in the post office instead if possible so that I could collect it from there, or even to provide the correct address. Again, was told that "it is impossible to know where the parcel is exactly, it has to be delivered anywhere it sais". No other options were suggested so I started to become worried.

A couple days later I have had exactly the same conversation however I discussed the fact that because it is signed for it could not be collected from anyone apart me, however I was told this is not true "Anyone in the same building could sign". The building in this case though is Cardiffs main Shopping Centre and even though one searches for the *wrong* postcode and number in google, no specific store or business is brought up. Although I insisted not to be delivered in the address where its not where it is supposed to go, I was told to wait to be delivered and then check back again. Still no other options. I went to each shop where the *wrong* postcode applies to, to let them know that a parcel may be delivered so that they keep it to collect it.

Yesterday evening (23/08) I realised it has been delivered and signed by somebody the same day (23/08). Called asap today (24/08) morning Royal Mail and the first person told me that they can confirm the postcode is right but cannot tell me where it was delivered due to data protection. Asked me to find out myself (??) where it might be and theres nothing she can do. I suggested to send all my details, ID, proof of address to prove thats its me chasing after my parcel, however this was not acceptable solution too. The second person ended the call after me explaining the situation for no reason and cursing silently. Meanwhile, I was on foot asking again the shops managers one by one without success so far.

The third lady tried to help by giving me some details to where was the GPS track last identified on the system, and search the shops in that area, without success though, however she opened a case and provided me the number of it, 72 hours to investigate and will call me back within 7-10 days.

And here I am now asking:

What happens if someone makes a mistake (the sender in my case or could be a post office employee pressing a wrong digit)? Or mistakes have to take so long to be solved?

Whats the purpose of signed for service if anyone can sign and collect?

Why nobody could let the regional Royal Mail office know that "guys , the parcel with name _ _ _ has a wrong address, be aware". Why theres no Royal Mail phone number for customers to talk to a non generic adviser, someone who is responsible to address similar cases within a region?

Why it took 9-10 days for a large letter or whatever from London to Cardiff?

With all my respect to the company, such cases should have been prevented.

[Snaggletooth]

There is a lot to unpack in that email.

Firstly, it is the law that Royal Mail must deliver any item to the address that is written on it. It is illegal for them to change the destination on any item except in the case of an official redirection. So RM were not allowed to do several of the things that you suggested. Even if they were allowed, it would be extremely difficult to locate a single item in this way.

This also means that, if the Post Office clerk did type the details into the computer incorrectly, this would not affect where the item ends up.

RM staff cannot deliver to a specified person as they would then need to get proof of identity from every customer on the doorstep, which would take a lot of time. Not everyone has good quality ID. It would also create a very easy way for thieves to steal people’s identity documents, and be very inconvenient for a lot of people.

[Snaggletooth]

Secondly, Signed For was the wrong service for this item. Signed For should be used only when one or both of the following apply: 1. you do not trust the recipient, and therefore need to prove that it was received, or; 2. You are sending goods which need slightly higher compensation for loss or damage than ordinary First or Second class. Neither apply in this case. The documents should have been sent either First Class or Special Delivery, with the SD being used if valuable and / or urgent.

If the P.O. clerk implied that Signed For will be delivered inside of 2-3 days then this is wrong. It is untrue and has never been true, and yet I have heard clerks say it from one end of the country to the other. I have no idea where they all get that from. Signed For, like all First & Second Class mail, has no maximum time. If you need a guaranteed time, go Special Delivery.

9 days is unusual for correctly addressed mail but not that strange if it has an incorrect address made out of two other addresses: they were probably trying to work out what to do with it.

[Snaggletooth]

Having worked in a Post Office in a shopping centre, I advise you to contact centre management. Even small shopping centres have these. It is the most likely place for badly addressed mail to end up.

[Skyliner]

Having worked in a Post Office in a shopping centre, I advise you to contact centre management. Even small shopping centres have these. It is the most likely place for badly addressed mail to end up.

Dear Snaggletooth,

I honestly appreciate your time invested to respond and make things clearer.

I ll start from your last message. The management office of the Shopping Centre was the first place I took advise from, when I was trying to find out which shop of the shopping centre corresponds to the wrong postcode and address. They are aware of the situation, we even checked with one of the information assistans together today with a few shops managers, still without success.

Secondly, what exactly fo you mean about official redirection? I got in touch formally and aware of what the result is going to be, explained the situation to the person to whom Royal Mail has trained to offer customer services, offering at the same time to provide any ID or documents that may be requested, in order to ask for a redirection, and pay anything extra if needed too. And that happened only on the 3rd day. Instead, I heard back theres nothing we can do, sorry_full stop_. This is what we call go for the extra mile, when interviewing people, and it didnt happen.

Thirdly, I definately agree with you about the selected postage scheme. Yet, as it involves a third party sender, there re not many things that I could do.

If I could I would have prevented this from happening however human nature involves mistakes. A false delivery that has been recognised as false later than the actual handling, I would understand that it would be too late for tears. That being said, there should be a different approach to situations where a problem is recognised (not ideally but still much) earlier, with less bureocracy and more efficiency, even with an extra cost if needed.

I could suggest more specific solutions but as I am not 100% sure regarding the exact procedures, I d rather not. I can only assume though that the sender's receipt, the tracking number of the parcel and he postmans portable device are all connected using the same software, so when the postman beeps the barcode on the parcel just before delivery, a pop up note on the device's screen would let him know about the situation or a warning, if this is not already a feature.

[Snaggletooth]

Royal Mail redirection:

https://www.royalmail.com/personal/rece ... direction/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is what I mean by an official redirection. It was not possible for you to do it in this case because you would not be able to prove your right to redirect from that location: you would need, say, a bank statement showing your name and the address in the shopping centre. Clearly that is impossible. The service is not designed for your situation.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I can only assume though that the sender's receipt, the tracking number of the parcel and he postmans portable device are all connected using the same software

In this case, because of the service used no. Signed for is a non-trackable service - its a confirmation of delivery service only.

Also no the 2 systems, Postman's PDA (run on Android), and the Post Office counter (bespoke software) are unable to talk to each other.

I got in touch formally and aware of what the result is going to be, explained the situation to the person to whom Royal Mail has trained to offer customer services, offering at the same time to provide any ID or documents that may be requested, in order to ask for a redirection, and pay anything extra if needed too

An official redirection takes about 5 days to set up and costs £33.99 minimum). The 5 days is required as both addresses are contacted to confirm the validity of the re-direction. In this case you were asking for an informal re-direction which can't be done, and the official re-direction is inappropriate given the circumstances.

That being said, there should be a different approach to situations where a problem is recognised (not ideally but still much) earlier, with less bureaucracy and more efficiency, even with an extra cost if needed.

The problem isn't with bureaucracy or inefficiency, or event extra costs. Its all down to the amount of mail that goes through the system, and without it being tracked (signed for - is not a tracked service) its impossible to know where it is. For instance, there are 75,000 delivery posties, 1400 Delivery Offices, 37 (approx) Mail centres. On average each postman has 2,300 letters and 25 parcels every day. Its simply the numbers involved that make it impossible to search and find 1 single item of post.

Whats the purpose of signed for service if anyone can sign and collect?

Anyone at the address can sign, but if after a delivery attempt is unsuccessful the recipient will need proof of address to collect.

What happens if someone makes a mistake (the sender in my case or could be a post office employee pressing a wrong digit)? Or mistakes have to take so long to be solved?

2 issues here

1. The PO clerk getting the postcode wrong has no effect on the delivery side. We deliver as addressed.
2. We deliver as addressed because of its the law. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... 005_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

any communication in written form on any kind of
physical medium to be conveyed to the person or address
indicated on the item itself or on its wrapping

With all my respect to the company, such cases should have been prevented.

I agree, and also with respect, in this case, the error wasn't with Royal Mail, it was with the sender. Though it does look like everyone involved, even on this unofficial site, did their best to explain what they could, and what they couldn't do.

I hope you eventually do get it, or if not you, there is a chance it will be sent back to the sender if the person who has it both realises its not for them, and that they are honest.

[Skyliner]

I truly appreciate your time to explain things in an easier format.

As a fair person, the least I can say is thank you to all the sides involved in Royal Mail as I know they try to resolve the matter asap, each one with any means necessary.

I have had a chat today with a mailman during his morning rota (I work in this shopping centre as well) when he brought todays mail in store and when I asked him he was already aware of the case, which means that it has been discussed and investigated already within RM. He told me that the postman who made the delivery is on holidays now until mid next week however they will try, if not already, to get in touch with him

I know that RM is a business providing services with massive workload. Yet, I would insist it is not impossible to introduce to your IT a way of urgent notes that would pop on the mailmans screen just before handover, intraconnected with my specific Tracking reference no. With the same way that I can see that someone called _ _ _ has signed and collected the parcel. Then put the parcel back in the van to the depot. Its wouldn't be such a big deal and it would be applied only to maximum 3% of the deliveries, minimizing any risks. Anyway..

I have not realised, though, what s the purpose of "Signed For TM" service. Its not clear to why a signature would be requested when ANYone can sign and collect it. While talking about laws, you mentioned people signing on collection who live in the same property, even not the perdon expecting the parcel. However you didn't mention that postmen sign instead as well on behalf of residents, for whatever reason. Is this legal? Or even mentioned anywhere in the RM T&Cs?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

However you didn't mention that postmen sign instead as well on behalf of residents, for whatever reason. Is this legal? Or even mentioned anywhere in the RM T&Cs?

Its not illegal for a postman to sign for it unless they comit and act of fruad or theft.

But it is a sackable offence - which is why I didn't mention and why its not mentioned in RMs T&Cs - it shouldn't happen.

While talking about laws, you mentioned people signing on collection who live in the same property, even not the perdon expecting the parcel.

It is assumed that when attending a specific address anyone answering the postie has permission to be there, if we had to check IDs for everyone every time then delivery of items would be delayed massively.

On the collection side, anyone at the address can collect the item as long as they have proof of ID of the intended recipient and the Red Card. This is explained on the collection card itself.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I have not realised, though, what s the purpose of "Signed For TM" service. Its not clear to why a signature would be requested when ANYone can sign and collect it.

Its a proof of the delivery type of service, in that someone at the address has signed as accepting it.

it is not impossible to introduce to your IT a way of urgent notes that would pop on the mailmans screen just before handover, intraconnected with my specific Tracking reference no.

Indeed it might be worth making such a suggestion to Royal Mail, but they would have to careful with the new GDPR regulations, and the Data Protection Act - Royal Mail lawyers seem very wary of these 2 acts and how it impacts the systems.

[Celgar]

Good afternoon everyone,

I would like to describe my case from the scope of a customer. The purpose of this is improvement as well as to find my lost documents / parcel.

One friend of mine posts me some documents with Signed for delivery from London to Cardiff on the 13th of August. The receipt sais "We aim to deliver next working day" however the lovely advisor from Post Office in London advised us 2-3 working days. Everything ok so far, no rush anyway.

Two days later (15/08) my friend finds out from the receipt that she has used a wrong postcode and address number to be delivered and calls me to let me know. I called immediately Royal Mail to let them know too and the response that I received was " there's nothing we can do, the item is not tracked". I explained that the parcel is signed for and asked to sent it in the post office instead if possible so that I could collect it from there, or even to provide the correct address. Again, was told that "it is impossible to know where the parcel is exactly, it has to be delivered anywhere it sais". No other options were suggested so I started to become worried.

A couple days later I have had exactly the same conversation however I discussed the fact that because it is signed for it could not be collected from anyone apart me, however I was told this is not true "Anyone in the same building could sign". The building in this case though is Cardiffs main Shopping Centre and even though one searches for the *wrong* postcode and number in google, no specific store or business is brought up. Although I insisted not to be delivered in the address where its not where it is supposed to go, I was told to wait to be delivered and then check back again. Still no other options. I went to each shop where the *wrong* postcode applies to, to let them know that a parcel may be delivered so that they keep it to collect it.

Yesterday evening (23/08) I realised it has been delivered and signed by somebody the same day (23/08). Called asap today (24/08) morning Royal Mail and the first person told me that they can confirm the postcode is right but cannot tell me where it was delivered due to data protection. Asked me to find out myself (??) where it might be and theres nothing she can do. I suggested to send all my details, ID, proof of address to prove thats its me chasing after my parcel, however this was not acceptable solution too. The second person ended the call after me explaining the situation for no reason and cursing silently. Meanwhile, I was on foot asking again the shops managers one by one without success so far.

The third lady tried to help by giving me some details to where was the GPS track last identified on the system, and search the shops in that area, without success though, however she opened a case and provided me the number of it, 72 hours to investigate and will call me back within 7-10 days.

And here I am now asking:

What happens if someone makes a mistake (the sender in my case or could be a post office employee pressing a wrong digit)? Or mistakes have to take so long to be solved?

Whats the purpose of signed for service if anyone can sign and collect?

Why nobody could let the regional Royal Mail office know that "guys , the parcel with name _ _ _ has a wrong address, be aware". Why theres no Royal Mail phone number for customers to talk to a non generic adviser, someone who is responsible to address similar cases within a region?

Why it took 9-10 days for a large letter or whatever from London to Cardiff?

With all my respect to the company, such cases should have been prevented.

When mail goes through the system the postcode is taken notice of before the remaining address details so the item will almost always end up at the DO(Delivery Office.)that delivers to that postcode. Never make a mistake writing the postcode on an item & if you are unsure omit the postcode details. Full address details are more than enough for an item to be delivered and it will still get there. It's just an ease of use thing for the MC(Mail Centre.)
Two to three working days are usually sufficient for items to get through the system as long as there no hold-ups such as staff shortages, local strikes etc. RM run everything in a shoestring nowadays so delays should not be unexpected.
It is unlikely that the post office employee wrote the incorrect postcode on the receipt so it is almost certain the sender wrote the incorrect address details on the item. If you have a regular postie or local knowledge within your local DO having incorrect or missing address details such as incorrect house number can usually be solved.
When there is an incorrect postcode on an item it can bounce between the MC and incorrect DO for a week or more unless someone covers the incorrect postcode up. We see this quite a lot in our DO so I expect it happens countrywide a lot.
Signed for items barcodes are 'zapped' at the post office if they are paid for there. Next they would get zapped at the MC on the day that they travel to the DO. After that they would either get 'zapped' at the point of delivery, or if they were 'killed off' and returned to sender, or if the recipient was not in the item would get zapped on the doorstep then zapped again in the DO when they were handed to the PHG in the callers office. This is seemingly a lot of 'zapping' but the signed for item isn't tracked through the system like a tracked or SD(Special Delivery.)item.

Does the postcode written on the item, which was supposedly incorrect, relate to the shopping centre where the item has been delivered? Or was the item delivered to the remaining address details which state the shopping centre but the incorrect number?

Postcodes usually cover about fifteen or so address points but it may be more than that.
When a signed for item, or for that matter any item, is delivered to an address and a person answers the door the postie will presume that person is entitled to be in the property. It is not our responsibility to question that person to see they are meant to be in the house.
It is possible for you to stop a local postie in your area and ask them for the phone number of your local DO. Alternatively you could visit the local DO in person. You are liable to get a better response that way rather than phoning the national customer service number.
It took 9 to 10 days to get from London to Cardiff mainly because the sender wrote the incorrect postcode on the item. Do not write a postcode on an item unless you are sure it is correct.
Postie's are not meant to sign for items themselves. This a RM rule and not a law or legal obligation. We are allowed to attempt to deliver recorded items to a neighbour if the recipient is not in.
The GPS system on the PDA we use to collect signatures is supposed to be really accurate so I suggest you visit your local DO and ask if there can check where the item was delivered. I have a horrible feeling there is a data protection stop in that information though which is a bit crazy.