Sickness and Annualized hours. Easy to sort out right?

[jagger]

So let me guess, you will only accept an inflation 10% pay rise and everything else to remain the same?? Good luck.

Here, I'm all up for that also but I live in the real world and accept that something might have to give. Simon Thompson is a complete joke. The quicker he leaves the better. Im striking for that very reason. But whoever replaces him, they will want to change things also. Unfortunately companies change. Its the business we are in.

Sundays, hell no. Later starts, hell no. Sick pay at £250 million a year and rising. Yeah lets keep things the same. Same people every year playing the system. Might take a few months off myself and live it up for a bit. Why not reward those that come in every week with a bonus instead of bending over and letting the, "Ive got a runny nose brigade" more time off on full pay.
An extra hour in the winter, hour less in the summer. Sounds like a right nightmare. Try telling your local Asda or Tesco driver delivering your groceries on a Saturday night at 10pm whos on at least £2 a hour less than you that story. He'll laugh in your face.

The union will fight on our behalf. They will, but they wont get everything you want. The sooner people realise that the quicker you can get out of cloud nine.

Always makes me laugh when people like you go on about the sickness levels and pin it and the door of your colleagues.

If the annual leave system and in particular the ad-hoc days leave was much better , the sickness levels would be much better.

For that you’d need adequate staffing but rm don’t want to acknowledge that.

I tell people how our annual leave works and they think it’s a joke , “what do you mean you need to know what week in 18 months you need off”

As for being 3 times the national average , maybe look at our equipment, how far we walk and in what conditions and how many cut h&s corners.

Those are the reasons the sick levels are high and only a small percentage of that play the system.

So you are saying that our crap annual leave system is part of the sickness problem.
Therefore you are admitting that people are taking the piss by going sick when they need a day off.

[Pidleypoo]

So let me guess, you will only accept an inflation 10% pay rise and everything else to remain the same?? Good luck.

Here, I'm all up for that also but I live in the real world and accept that something might have to give. Simon Thompson is a complete joke. The quicker he leaves the better. Im striking for that very reason. But whoever replaces him, they will want to change things also. Unfortunately companies change. Its the business we are in.

Sundays, hell no. Later starts, hell no. Sick pay at £250 million a year and rising. Yeah lets keep things the same. Same people every year playing the system. Might take a few months off myself and live it up for a bit. Why not reward those that come in every week with a bonus instead of bending over and letting the, "Ive got a runny nose brigade" more time off on full pay.
An extra hour in the winter, hour less in the summer. Sounds like a right nightmare. Try telling your local Asda or Tesco driver delivering your groceries on a Saturday night at 10pm whos on at least £2 a hour less than you that story. He'll laugh in your face.

The union will fight on our behalf. They will, but they wont get everything you want. The sooner people realise that the quicker you can get out of cloud nine.

Always makes me laugh when people like you go on about the sickness levels and pin it and the door of your colleagues.

If the annual leave system and in particular the ad-hoc days leave was much better , the sickness levels would be much better.

For that you’d need adequate staffing but rm don’t want to acknowledge that.

I tell people how our annual leave works and they think it’s a joke , “what do you mean you need to know what week in 18 months you need off”

As for being 3 times the national average , maybe look at our equipment, how far we walk and in what conditions and how many cut h&s corners.

Those are the reasons the sick levels are high and only a small percentage of that play the system.

So you are saying that our crap annual leave system is part of the sickness problem.
Therefore you are admitting that people are taking the piss by going sick when they need a day off.

I haven’t denied it but Royal Mail do and it’s obvious.

[Pidleypoo]

So let me guess, you will only accept an inflation 10% pay rise and everything else to remain the same?? Good luck.

Here, I'm all up for that also but I live in the real world and accept that something might have to give. Simon Thompson is a complete joke. The quicker he leaves the better. Im striking for that very reason. But whoever replaces him, they will want to change things also. Unfortunately companies change. Its the business we are in.

Sundays, hell no. Later starts, hell no. Sick pay at £250 million a year and rising. Yeah lets keep things the same. Same people every year playing the system. Might take a few months off myself and live it up for a bit. Why not reward those that come in every week with a bonus instead of bending over and letting the, "Ive got a runny nose brigade" more time off on full pay.
An extra hour in the winter, hour less in the summer. Sounds like a right nightmare. Try telling your local Asda or Tesco driver delivering your groceries on a Saturday night at 10pm whos on at least £2 a hour less than you that story. He'll laugh in your face.

The union will fight on our behalf. They will, but they wont get everything you want. The sooner people realise that the quicker you can get out of cloud nine.

Always makes me laugh when people like you go on about the sickness levels and pin it and the door of your colleagues.

If the annual leave system and in particular the ad-hoc days leave was much better , the sickness levels would be much better.

For that you’d need adequate staffing but rm don’t want to acknowledge that.

I tell people how our annual leave works and they think it’s a joke , “what do you mean you need to know what week in 18 months you need off”

As for being 3 times the national average , maybe look at our equipment, how far we walk and in what conditions and how many cut h&s corners.

Those are the reasons the sick levels are high and only a small percentage of that play the system.

So you are saying that our crap annual leave system is part of the sickness problem.
Therefore you are admitting that people are taking the piss by going sick when they need a day off.

I haven’t denied it but Royal Mail do and it’s obvious.

And as I said , it’s not the largest part of why sickness is high so I’ll say it again …..poor uniform , poor equipment, health and safety standards completely ignored in particular bag weights and lwt’s being not fit for purpose and all of that creates sickness and injury way more than people needing a day off but that still plays a part.

The annual leave system is a joke though.

[Wolf91]

Another one? These sort of posts popping up all over the shop recently. It’s not working.

[Bowiefan]

I don't understand how anyone can be OK with the prospect of annualised hours/commit to deliver. Often your only recourse in daily conflicts against excessive workloads and the unrealistic expectations of bullying managers is to state you intend to only work your hours and finish on time. Imagine if that defence was gone. Combined duty but your colleague has gone sick? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete. Something you need to do in the afternoon/hobby/life event? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete. Come back from day off/annual leave, and found your duty wasn't covered? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete.

[osgoody1970]

I can see annualised hours going the same way as lapsing, being abused by managers, ie,” leave the top two rows in you’ll be finished before twelve” then you will owe them untold…dot on the cards!!!

[sindba]

Another one? These sort of posts popping up all over the shop recently. It’s not working.

Yep. We've all noticed. Thompson's tragic little elves spamming the place with "got to modernise, get rid of workers rights" bullshit.

Sickness levels are above average because we're an ageing workforce flogged to death in a highly physical job. Aint rocket science.

And what does that have to do with "modernisation" anyway? Reducing workers rights is going backwards in time. What next in the name of "modernisation", kids up chimneys?

[sindba]

I can see annualised hours going the same way as lapsing, being abused by managers, ie,” leave the top two rows in you’ll be finished before twelve” then you will owe them untold…dot on the cards!!!

You won't be leaving anything. You'll be given a workload, told how long it "should" take you, and you'll have to do it no matter how long it takes.

Your manager will decide how much time is banked. It's irrelevant how long it actually takes.

It's not annualised hours, it's the abolition of finish times.

[DirtyHarry]

Modernisation, constant change, these things have been happening for the last 2 decades or more. And it never ends.

What we need is the reversal of at least the last 2 revisions, more full-time staff, and at least a full decade of stability.

[rambo1]

First off Im all for the strikes. Sundays, later starts, a pay rise with something closer to inflation. That needs a fight. However, I do understand that the company needs to modernise and changes do need to happen.

Sickpay.

I've been in the job over 20 years. I've seen people, the same people play the system every year, with piss poor excuses, same patterns, not giving a toss that puts strain and extra work on their fellow colleague's. I feel sorry for the genuine postie who will be suffering with an illness or personnel issue. We all have them. £250 MILLION a year on dealing with sickness levels. How much of that is genuine???

How about scraping the Christmas bonus and just have a yearly bonus, of say £1000?? Throughout the year, you deduct any sick days from that bonus, rewarding those that come in day in, day out, doing what they are paid to do. I guarantee that £250 million will get reduced by the end of that.

Annualized salary.

Has anybody actually seen a plan of this and whats been proposed? What change this makes to the working week in the winter months?

A full timer on 37 hours a week is asked to do an extra 1 hour a day, 5 days a week in the months of November and December making it a 42 hour working week, which we all mostly do anyways because, yes its the busiest time of year. To counter that in the 2 quietest months of the year, say June and July, you work an hour less a day and a 32 hour week, when the weather is better and you have more time to spend with your family and to do the hobbies or whatever you like doing. Does that sound a bad thing? Im missing out on potentially 5 hours a week in overtime around xmas but gaining more time in the summer with my family. Emm, sounds ok to me.

Its like asking a greenkeeper at your local golf course to work more hours in the summer when the grass is growing and less in the winter when nothing is growing. Its a no brainer. I think the company does need to modernise in some areas. I love my routines, I hate change. I agree with the strikes and will continue to strike. However, some points in the negotiations shouldn't be that hard to agree on.

Just ideas people.

I don't agree with rewarding £1000 to people who are lucky enough to not be sick, or stupidity come into work when they are full of a lurgy to infect others while people who are genuinely I'll by no fault of thier own get their £1000 docked. If you can spot the ones who play the system then why can't the managers?
Annualized hrs. Has anyone explained how leave allocation will work? If you want 2 weeks in January, it's going to take more of your leave than 2 weeks in July. How's that fair? Are you really finishing your duty one hr early every day during summer at the moment?

[taurus88]

The problem isn’t annualised hours, per se.

The problem is the suspicion that annualised hours are a front for making the walks bigger, so that staff can then be bullied and intimidated into completing walks under the new commitment to deliver. You won’t make any time, and any time owed in your favour will be laughed at.

Some would suggest this is just making a way of working that was previously unofficial - in certain offices - into an official practice.

As far as sick leave, it’s better not to look at “piss-takers” as the most egregious examples of a failing system, and instead look at members of staff who have suffered lasting harm to their bodies as a result of pounding the streets. Can anybody honestly say that more than 1% or 2% of staff exploit the system? And doesn’t the employer more than make that back in people who turn up when they’re barely fit for work, or else in early starters and runners?

Let’s not be myopic in our judgement, here. Look at the system as a way of protecting you, not them. If the worst were to befall you, God forbid, would you really want to rely upon the protection of a flimsier system, one that might be operated by managers who have very few scruples, and believe that everybody is a piss-taker (not just in terms of absence, but everything else).

I operate with the same mentality in work as in life - I don’t want to see, nor shall I support, an erosion of my own protections to punish a small minority of people. Sadly, this mentality is one that has spread in this country, and if we allow it into our workplace, we’ll lose something that we can never get back.

[Wolf91]

The problem isn’t annualised hours, per se.

The problem is the suspicion that annualised hours are a front for making the walks bigger, so that staff can then be bullied and intimidated into completing walks under the new commitment to deliver. You won’t make any time, and any time owed in your favour will be laughed at.

Some would suggest this is just making a way of working that was previously unofficial - in certain offices - into an official practice.

As far as sick leave, it’s better not to look at “piss-takers” as the most egregious examples of a failing system, and instead look at members of staff who have suffered lasting harm to their bodies as a result of pounding the streets. Can anybody honestly say that more than 1% or 2% of staff exploit the system? And doesn’t the employer more than make that back in people who turn up when they’re barely fit for work, or else in early starters and runners?

Let’s not be myopic in our judgement, here. Look at the system as a way of protecting you, not them. If the worst were to befall you, God forbid, would you really want to rely upon the protection of a flimsier system, one that might be operated by managers who have very few scruples, and believe that everybody is a piss-taker (not just in terms of absence, but everything else).

I operate with the same mentality in work as in life - I don’t want to see, nor shall I support, an erosion of my own protections to punish a small minority of people. Sadly, this mentality is one that has spread in this country, and if we allow it into our workplace, we’ll lose something that we can never get back.

Totally agreed and nicely said. This is what people are fighting against. The nuances run far deeper than just pay and a few minor t&c’s as some people on here try to frame it.

[richietns]

Modernisation, constant change, these things have been happening for the last 2 decades or more. And it never ends.

What we need is the reversal of at least the last 2 revisions, more full-time staff, and at least a full decade of stability.

Totally agree it's like we haven't been changing for 15-20 years the fact that every CEO fails shows you it's set up for asset stripping,why is there no consequences for failure he should be kicked out.

[stevejm]

I don't understand how anyone can be OK with the prospect of annualised hours/commit to deliver. Often your only recourse in daily conflicts against excessive workloads and the unrealistic expectations of bullying managers is to state you intend to only work your hours and finish on time. Imagine if that defence was gone. Combined duty but your colleague has gone sick? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete. Something you need to do in the afternoon/hobby/life event? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete. Come back from day off/annual leave, and found your duty wasn't covered? Doesn't matter, you WILL complete.

You clearly stated everything that is pertinent to this particular change. Thank you!
Annualised hours = work until finish = extreme hours. I'm sure that in the final negotiation the length of duty will be bracketed to 9 or 10 hours - as if we should be thankful for that?

Those of us who are delivery workers will suffer poorer health outcomes as a result. That is indisputable. Maladies like plantar fascitis, osteoarthritis, torn ligaments and cartilage.

And then ... to add insult to injury .... we would have reduced sick pay terms.

It goes without saying that this industrial action is well merited and we must bring RMG to the negotiating table to get a meaningful pay rise and to protect YOUR and your family's quality of life - because how will you feel if you are unable to walk more than 100 yards without suffering pain? You won't be playing with your children or your grandchildren - you'll be a non participatory spectator wishing for better health.

Fight for a better outcome!

[sindba]

It's not "annualised hours". It's the abolition of finish times and overtime.

You're given work., you do it. No matter how long it takes. Your manager decides how much you are paid for it.

It's fuck8ng Dickensian, it's Amazon style exploitation, and we have to fight against it.