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Poll : Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.

Are you ready for a National Strike?

Yes:
784
85%
No:
142
15%
 
Total votes: 926

Mobey
Posts: 291
Joined: 26 Jul 2016, 11:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Mobey »

SierraOscarBravo wrote:
It is about time the business rewarded staff with 100% attendance with a significant bonus and removed sick pay from those who are very clearly feigning illness on a regular basis. It is the only way to stop the abuse of sick pay.
You say about Stress, is that because it's "easy" to say?

Just because stress isn't visible, that doesn't mean it's any less debilitating.
Lounge Lizard
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 9458
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 21:54

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Lounge Lizard »

Newbie001 wrote:If they bring the reduced sickness in. If you have the flu or a minor injury,most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days. But you would be as well to take the whole week off. You might even get some ssp.
Sickness days could actually increase under this proposal for the people that "milk" the system. Whereas every one else loses out.
Newbie,
With "most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days" are you sure ?
I thought sick pay would be to stop sick pay for the first three days, the point being to deter anyone from taking one, two or three days off. :shock:
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by fishtank »

The problem is it forces people who can't afford to lose pay into bringing their illness to work not only putting themselves at risk but the entire office. This doesn't just push up overall sick absence, it also drives down performance.

Still waiting for an answer SOB, how do you tell the shirkers from the genuinely ill?, hearsay and opinion won't cut it at an employment tribunal.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Newbie001
Posts: 474
Joined: 30 May 2014, 17:29
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Newbie001 »

Lounge Lizard wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:If they bring the reduced sickness in. If you have the flu or a minor injury,most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days. But you would be as well to take the whole week off. You might even get some ssp.
Sickness days could actually increase under this proposal for the people that "milk" the system. Whereas every one else loses out.
Newbie,
With "most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days" are you sure ?
I thought sick pay would be to stop sick pay for the first three days, the point being to deter anyone from taking one, two or three days off. :shock:
Point I'm trying to make is it might stop people taking 1 day sickies. But if you've got genuine short term illness/sick which usually last 2/3 days or more. Instead of rushing yourself back to work, you'd be as well taking the whole week off. Or on the flip side if you've too scared to take couple of days off you might aggravate an illness/injury requiring weeks/ months off.
Lounge Lizard
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 9458
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 21:54

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Lounge Lizard »

Newbie001 wrote:
Lounge Lizard wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:If they bring the reduced sickness in. If you have the flu or a minor injury,most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days. But you would be as well to take the whole week off. You might even get some ssp.
Sickness days could actually increase under this proposal for the people that "milk" the system. Whereas every one else loses out.
Newbie,
With "most people would force themselves to come in after 2/3 days" are you sure ?
I thought sick pay would be to stop sick pay for the first three days, the point being to deter anyone from taking one, two or three days off. :shock:
Point I'm trying to make is it might stop people taking 1 day sickies. But if you've got genuine short term illness/sick which usually last 2/3 days or more. Instead of rushing yourself back to work, you'd be as well taking the whole week off. Or on the flip side if you've too scared to take couple of days off you might aggravate an illness/injury requiring weeks/ months off.
Newbie,
Yes, I understand now. :thumbup
jetblack
Posts: 974
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 12:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by jetblack »

fishtank wrote:
..how do you tell the shirkers from the genuinely ill?
Just to play devils advocate here for a minute - but would an analysis of patterns of attendance/sick leave, in light of the attendant RM sick procedure, be able to throw any light on the matter ?

Would all be circumstantal of course - but as we often hear, RM only need reasonable doubt.

The cut to sick pay is a slightly different issue - and its wrong. But the shirkers do need routing out - they are ballsing it up for all of us. I have to say, I have witnessed abuses of the system, big time.
Good security means trying to limit the damage a Trusted role can do
Lounge Lizard
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 9458
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 21:54

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Lounge Lizard »

"an analysis of patterns of attendance/sick leave" ? :shock:
So someone with school age children is off sick for a fortnight during the summer holidays. :no no Very suspicious. :thumbdown
Then that same postman with school age children is off sick for a fortnight during the summer holidays another year. :no no No doubt about it. :dance Sack him. :wave :wave
mark.cup
Posts: 303
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 20:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by mark.cup »

jetblack wrote:
fishtank wrote:
..how do you tell the shirkers from the genuinely ill?
Just to play devils advocate here for a minute - but would an analysis of patterns of attendance/sick leave, in light of the attendant RM sick procedure, be able to throw any light on the matter ?

Would all be circumstantal of course - but as we often hear, RM only need reasonable doubt.

The cut to sick pay is a slightly different issue - and its wrong. But the shirkers do need routing out - they are ballsing it up for all of us. I have to say, I have witnessed abuses of the system, big time.
Our DOM has started trying this on he sent an acting line manager one month earlier this year with a print out let's just say it was April?..

Says you were off 1 day 5 years ago and 1 day 2 years ago in this month then went on to say it looks like a pattern is forming then proceeds to mention could it be half term? I said there are only 12 months in a year you know so a very good chance of this happening I haven't been sick for at least 3 years now and only ever take a single day when I've got the sh***s and you can't physically do a delivery!

This company is becoming a total disgrace yes we all know the ones who say I save my sick etc....

Yet they come saying stuff like this to someone who's had a handful of sick days in 23 years.... It got very heated and I basically said make that accusation one more time and I promise you I will be sick on the anniversary of one those dates on your silly little print out :arrrghhh
jetblack
Posts: 974
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 12:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by jetblack »

The problem ? Doctors have nothing to lose by giving a sick line.

I go to the doc tommorrow with stress (I'm not stressed but I fancy 3 weeks off) - the doc has suspicions (cos he/she isn't thick after all) - but what they going to do ? Refuse me a sick note ? Then that night I go off and top myself. The doc is up before the GMC. Whereas if the doc gives me the note the loss/risk is all with the employer - the risk of loss of revenues that is (sick pay). It matters not one way or the other for the doc.

Of course, the doc isn't the real problem - the real problem is the duplicitous lying twat that puts the doc (the NHS), their employer and their trade union in that position.


Anyhow - I'm just thinking aloud. The point remains that in no way is it justifiable to frame rules and reg.s around the behaviour of the 1%. You have to assume ( as does the doc) that people are behaving honourably and sincerely.
Good security means trying to limit the damage a Trusted role can do
Mobey
Posts: 291
Joined: 26 Jul 2016, 11:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by Mobey »

This 1% isn't just in the royal mail. It's in every single employer up and down the country!
SierraOscarBravo
Posts: 156
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 22:13
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by SierraOscarBravo »

fishtank wrote:The problem is it forces people who can't afford to lose pay into bringing their illness to work not only putting themselves at risk but the entire office. This doesn't just push up overall sick absence, it also drives down performance.

Still waiting for an answer SOB, how do you tell the shirkers from the genuinely ill?, hearsay and opinion won't cut it at an employment tribunal.
I could tell you exactly who the shirkers are in my office and who are the workers. We all know the ones who go sick every other week or more often than that. The ones who go off with 'stress' because they have been moved off their duty after 20 years or because they have been partnered with someone who is not a runner like they are.

If you are not afraid of hard work and have a good attendance record then you should be given a bonus. If you fail to meet an adequate attendance level then you should be shown the door. It is time the business rewarded hard work and sent a very clear message to shirkers.
jetblack
Posts: 974
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 12:54
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by jetblack »

SierraOscarBravo wrote:...
Yes - but how would you ensure that you are not discriminating against those with genuine illness and/or disability ie. those genuinely in need ?

What common sense tells you is not good enough - common sense is notoriously fallible.
Good security means trying to limit the damage a Trusted role can do
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by fishtank »

I could tell you exactly who the shirkers are in my office and who are the workers. We all know the ones who go sick every other week or more often than that.
First of all that's bullshit, nobody goes sick "every other week or more often than that" and still has a job after 6 months in Royal Mail, the attendance standards are far too strict to allow that without intervention from OH and a whole filing cabinet full of evidence from Doctors and specialists. Exaggerating the problem for effect doesn't help your cause but that aside you still haven't given me a sensible basis for an absence policy that isn't based on one man's unqualified medical opinion on who is "at it" which won't fly in any business never mind Royal Mail.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
SierraOscarBravo
Posts: 156
Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 22:13
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by SierraOscarBravo »

fishtank wrote:
I could tell you exactly who the shirkers are in my office and who are the workers. We all know the ones who go sick every other week or more often than that.
First of all that's bullshit, nobody goes sick "every other week or more often than that" and still has a job after 6 months in Royal Mail, the attendance standards are far too strict to allow that without intervention from OH and a whole filing cabinet full of evidence from Doctors and specialists. Exaggerating the problem for effect doesn't help your cause but that aside you still haven't given me a sensible basis for an absence policy that isn't based on one man's unqualified medical opinion on who is "at it" which won't fly in any business never mind Royal Mail.
I assure you it is happening in my office and sickness levels here are abysmal. It is the same people going sick most of the time. It's not heresay. It is reality in our office.
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Are we all ready for a National Strike?

Post by fishtank »

SierraOscarBravo wrote:I assure you it is happening in my office and sickness levels here are abysmal. It is the same people going sick most of the time. It's not heresay. It is reality in our office.
The attendance standards in Royal Mail are..

Review 1:14 days or 4 times in a 12 month period
Review 2:10 days or 2 times in the next 6 months
Review 3 (consideration for dismissal ): 10 days or 2 times in the next 6 months.

These reviews are triggered by HR not the local managers.
All stage reviews are reported to DSM level.
Although a manager can disregard a stage review they have to report the reason to DSM level, it's therefore very unusual for a review to be triggered but not issued.
All Review 3 consideration for dismissal cases are dealt with at area level.

If your scenario was true and people were taking sickies "every other week or more often" from start to finish a member would trigger a review 1 after 8 weeks, leaving a 2 week space for issue review 2 six weeks later and be up for dismissal six weeks after that ( that's assuming best case scenario and they don't trigger it in one 14 day absence ). A 20 week career in Royal Mail,?, obviously people have dodged the bullet at review 3 but even resetting everything in another 5 months they'd be up for it again and you don't dodge the bullet twice.

So...bullshit.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share