Savings plan disguised as revision.

[dvbuk55]

Be careful...maybe that is what they want you to do. Then this will follow :

Monthly pay
No sick procedure
No consultation in planning
No consultation in Discilpine
No protection of Terms & Conditions
75% Part time,(Bags dropped at your house)
All Contracts to be reverted into Fix term and flexible for Christmas
No SA holiday Payments
Banking Hours
Delivery Office To Delivery Office,(much like the retail one on John Lewis)
Cessation of Delivery Supplement
Cessation of all allowances

Ah the bogeyman cometh - there is absolutely no justification for that statement other than scare tactics - you may as well walk the streets with a sandwich board saying the end of the world is nigh!

[stokes11eg]

Not so many years ago, the unions were trying to get us onto monthly pay. The carrot then was we'd get a months wages. Any consultation about planning is just ignored, at least our input is.Discipline? The Management do what they like.Our terms and conditions are only protected in theory--mine has changed beyond all regognition---------that is wht people are leaving the Union--

[POSTMAN]

It's easy,and i know managers are on and reading this,but tell them to f**k off and go through the proper channels and the agreement that has just been ratified!

It's the iwt that is killing us POSTMAN...it is f***ing merciless...it should never have been agreed but that's the point it's agreed so no point in telling them to f**K off really is there?

...and drb..managers don't stick around until finishing time on a saturday now...why would they give a s**t if it changes to 1500.

I'm not talking about the IWT,although yes that is f****d.That comes later during the 'proper' revisions as per agreement.
I'm talking about the let's have a revision we need to save hrs shite.
f**k 'em!

[POSTMAN]

Be careful...maybe that is what they want you to do. Then this will follow :

Monthly pay
No sick procedure
No consultation in planning
No consultation in Discilpine
No protection of Terms & Conditions
75% Part time,(Bags dropped at your house)
All Contracts to be reverted into Fix term and flexible for Christmas
No SA holiday Payments
Banking Hours
Delivery Office To Delivery Office,(much like the retail one on John Lewis)
Cessation of Delivery Supplement
Cessation of all allowances

Ah the bogeyman cometh - there is absolutely no justification for that statement other than scare tactics - you may as well walk the streets with a sandwich board saying the end of the world is nigh!

What exactly are you saying then dv?

[drb]

You may be right there DVBUK, however let me tell you of these facts,(all of these where done in my own time). I have given advice to people "outside" of the business in the last 4 weeks :

Solicitor = Compulsary redundancy.Top firm in the city decided to "cull" it's fee earners. Trouble was the 4 they got rid of were all of ethnic origin,and longer services.

Receptionist = Turned up for work,given a redundancy letter at the minimum notice.Trouble was her job was being advertised BEFORE she was told

Care Worker : Dismissed because of a migraine.When I checked the other staff's records,no CRB checks and no employment contracts,(they transport foster children)

Clerk : Turned up for work...company gone!

Manual Worker : Dismissed for no apparent reason,(large bottle company). Turned out some who did not have visa's were on 60 pence an hour.

Retail : Large well known clothing shop changed someone's shift with no notice or collective agreement

Retail : Changed shift and job description,and put her in the frozen department even though they knew she had arthritis.(well know supermarket).

I am not here to "win arguments"...whats the point? These are facts.Whether you agree or not...who cares? Oh! and we can get into a political slagging match about trade unions if you want but again,this forum is about advice and help.It is about what WE can do,collectively. I promise you this,there are people on this forum who are scared,are being bullied,and are isolated. Just my thoughts...nothing more....

[drb]

The trouble is there is no "new blood" coming through in terms of grass roots reps.No one is taking up the mantle after the old rep has gone. If there is no rep you do get those b*****d management pushing things through. Why I don't know.I do know that senior directors where in the negotiations and know what was agreed.So are THEY telling the DSM's to push through stuff OR are the DSM's acting alone?

Regardless,if an office has no rep it does not matter. Perhaps HQ could give iphones as prizes!!!! (only kidding). Perhaps it is a "society" thing. "I'm alright jack" and all that s**t.

I do know that the "Youth rep" areas are poorly attended with little or no interest and no support from the divisional upwards. Frustrating isn't it?

[stokes11eg]

You see, it takes two to tango,and if the Union still cannot see it is their own actions that have caused numbers to drop, and makes others reluctant to take up the mantle______________________

[fishtank]

The trouble is there is no "new blood" coming through in terms of grass roots reps.No one is taking up the mantle after the old rep has gone. If there is no rep you do get those b*****d management pushing things through. Why I don't know.I do know that senior directors where in the negotiations and know what was agreed.So are THEY telling the DSM's to push through stuff OR are the DSM's acting alone?

Regardless,if an office has no rep it does not matter. Perhaps HQ could give iphones as prizes!!!! (only kidding). Perhaps it is a "society" thing. "I'm alright jack" and all that s**t.

I do know that the "Youth rep" areas are poorly attended with little or no interest and no support from the divisional upwards. Frustrating isn't it?

Frustrating it may be but the answer is obvious drb..unions have evolved into something the were never meant to be...businesses.
If you want to find out where the "i'm alright jack" mentality actually lies just walk into the "boardrooms" of the top 5 unions in this country.
There is plenty of "grass roots" activision out there but it has no wish to ally itself with what it sees as an impenetrable "old boys network" network more interested in protecting it's own position than those of it's members.
I am not picking on the CWU in particular..Unison and Unite have both become far too large and unwieldy and are riven with infighting,jealousy and power struggles...who wants to be a part of that?

As far as our own problems...of course DSMs are not acting alone...this has been the plan all along,right from the time it became obvious that P&M2007 wouldn't allow them the freedom to impose the type of measurement systems that IWT...the DPT and pegasus are.
These systems were designed to do one thing and one thing only......cut hours and jobs and it doesn't matter whether you get every single input bang on...they still cut hours and jobs.
That is why Royal Mail agreed "No Budget Driven Revisions"...they don't need to be the system does it for them.
They will still show a reduction in hours even at 70BSi and then you have to target 80BSi as your next milestone which means more hours lost etc,etc...
Maybe you could answer a question that's been bothering me drb.
What happens to an individual that cannot walk as fast as pegasus says the should or cannot sort as fast as the IWT says they should?
Or indeed what happens if a whole office can't live up to the revision it has just signed off based on these tools?

[drb]

I don't think the numbers have dropped to the level we thought.For example this site before the ballot seemed to indicate that it would be a NO vote. In fact it seemed there would be a high turnout too.However it is only the concerned that have any interest.The majority did not vote.Some said they did not get their ballot papers,but I don't think it was a major sway anyway even if they did.

Is it apathy? Have our draconian trade union laws done what it was meant to do? I don't know.But I'll tell you this much.Local reps,(active one's) have never been so busy. This is a fact.
The non-active one's ...well...there is your problem. It's that "I'm alright jack" syndrome again.

A union is only as strong as the people within.I would never sit back and wait for someone else to fight my battles via a "letter to branches" or a "i'm alright jack" person. I would get the info and pass it to my local rep as soon as possible.It may help him.

You cannot look after 90'000 plus people from one office.You need to support your local reps from there. I have seen many a face say the union are s**t.When I have called a ballot you should see the "foot shufflers".
These are the same people who say the union are s**t!

You would be suprised at how a local rep does not know national agreements or the process to go into IR framework.It is scary.The amount of times I have written letters for them is also scary. Do they want to learn? I don't know because I know they went on the Union Skills courses,so what was the point in that? Remember the CWU paid for them to go on the course,(our subs). They get back and start signing off s**t deals or not at all.

In terms of the standards not being met. Well for starters the national agreed performance standards still hold the field.However that agreement is only as strong as the people upholding it,or backing it.
I don't think trade unions have got everything right by a long shot...but again they have helped me,(and our office) in the past because we backed the rep.But some have had bad experiences and I do accept that too.
Once again I am preaching to the converted so never mind me! I'm ranting again!! I don't think the blame can be aimed just at one organisation.It is attitudes. You normally get people attending union meetings AFTER they have been in trouble and the rep has defended them well...if not...they don't turn up...simple as that!

[POSTMAN]

Regarding the reps,have they not got the workshops to come.

I am guessing this agreement is a lot different from the P&M in that our guys will be taught everything there is to know.

So it 'should' be a case of them all up the speed on everything.............shouldn't it?

[steven100]

Union do we still have a union, i thought the agreement was to ensure consultation in the workplace.

Example

Manager - We are lapsing today
Union rep - Not sure we can do it
Manager - You can, its light ( Yorkies and yorkies of flats), still sorting mail at 8am. Or was it pm .
Union rep - Ok

9.30 am - People are still boxing in mail from the primary. Still have lapsing to do. etc.......


Union died years ago.

[POSTMAN]

Union do we still have a union, i thought the agreement was to ensure consultation in the workplace.

Example

Manager - We are lapsing today
Union rep - Not sure we can do it
Manager - You can, its light ( Yorkies and yorkies of flats), still sorting mail at 8am. Or was it pm .
Union rep - Ok

9.30 am - People are still boxing in mail from the primary. Still have lapsing to do. etc.......


Union died years ago.

End result,you cut off!!

Managers can say and try what they want,if you can't do it,you can't do it.

[drb]

I have said this time and time again.....You lapse/absorb.......because you can......

No one is going to consult anyone about not working their time. What is consultive is this...leave your lapsed in the frame.Tell your lino you will come back for it AFTER your duty.That is the correct measurment for capacity. If you come back for it after your own duty........Voila!!!! There is your capacity.......Speak to your rep..see what he thinks....

However I don't think many will because it may be too early,especially on a Tuesday,or a friday for some!!

[stokes11eg]

But if your rep has already agreed what then? You seem to be missing the point folks are trying to make---

[drb]

Sorry Stokes. Agreed to what?