RMCtv : Simon 'Foghorn Leghorn' Thompson on todays meeting with the CWU

[LaggyBand]

It’s exactly what Dave Ward said, but I’ll add the word conspiracy.

There’s a conspiracy to f**k up the letters side so it dies and GLS rises from the ashes and they all get rich and we all die.

[chrisj]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Annualised hours is something they want but as we all know it will not work that smoothly - not in delivery; how is it going to be monitored and summer time does not always mean early finish...

With some of these proposed changes, we know it will cause disruption for people and some will suffer more than others, however, that is where the CWU Union should come in to help their most vulnerable members to ameliorate the worst effects of the changes. The CWu can accept the changes but with lots of caveats and protections where possible.

Sunday working is the same - we do not want it but if that will free the Saturday and Monday, most of us will live with that. Morey, I do not see us working every Sunday or routinely delivering letters every Sunday but that might happen on elections, mother's Day and Christmas and others. There will not be enough parcels to make us a work on Sundays...

Not paying a Sunday premium will stink but if it is on a few occasion so be it; a lot of the other jobs we might think are better also do not pay Sunday premiums - anyways, people tend to knock off early on Sundays...

A lot of us actually go beyond to deliver as we speak; it is just our pride and goodwill...

Our job is actually not that bad and there are lots of worst employers out there. We will not all be lucky to work in the civil service or Nhs or a few others that provide something similar or slightly better than RM.

Sickness or absent procedure will change whether we like it or not but I actually think RM has not totally finalised the workings, so the CWU can still come in to protect those that need protections; especially those currently in service with underlying health conditions, the stages levels and how to get there or helping more with occupational therapy and finally helping people move on from the job with better IHR benefits.

What we can do as the CWu appears to be doing is just say NO, we want to go back to Agenda for Growth or Pathways to Change...

Again, what is the CWU fighting for? Is it to get rid of ST and hope for a better CEO or to fight the political fight of the haves and have nots?

[SpacePhoenix]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Can't see that being the case, if it were, why would RM be bring it in as a change when it would actually be staying the same?

Think the most likely way that they'll do Sunday working is on a rota where every so many weekends you'll be required to work the Sunday

[timbo1234]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Annualised hours is something they want but as we all know it will not work that smoothly - not in delivery; how is it going to be monitored and summer time does not always mean early finish...

With some of these proposed changes, we know it will cause disruption for people and some will suffer more than others, however, that is where the CWU Union should come in to help their most vulnerable members to ameliorate the worst effects of the changes. The CWu can accept the changes but with lots of caveats and protections where possible.

Sunday working is the same - we do not want it but if that will free the Saturday and Monday, most of us will live with that. Morey, I do not see us working every Sunday or routinely delivering letters every Sunday but that might happen on elections, mother's Day and Christmas and others. There will not be enough parcels to make us a work on Sundays...

Not paying a Sunday premium will stink but if it is on a few occasion so be it; a lot of the other jobs we might think are better also do not pay Sunday premiums - anyways, people tend to knock off early on Sundays...

A lot of us actually go beyond to deliver as we speak; it is just our pride and goodwill...

Our job is actually not that bad and there are lots of worst employers out there. We will not all be lucky to work in the civil service or Nhs or a few others that provide something similar or slightly better than RM.

Sickness or absent procedure will change whether we like it or not but I actually think RM has not totally finalised the workings, so the CWU can still come in to protect those that need protections; especially those currently in service with underlying health conditions, the stages levels and how to get there or helping more with occupational therapy and finally helping people move on from the job with better IHR benefits.

What we can do as the CWu appears to be doing is just say NO, we want to go back to Agenda for Growth or Pathways to Change...

Again, what is the CWU fighting for? Is it to get rid of ST and hope for a better CEO or to fight the political fight of the haves and have nots?

And when after we agree to all the changes and accept 2% RM decide we need less staff. Also that we need to work longer hours. Also that they need to freeze pay for 5 years. Also they use more and more agency staff. Also that zero hours contracts for all new entrants. Also monitor PDAs to ensure a 4mph walking pace is maintained by everybody. Also we deliver on Bank Holidays including Xmas. Also that the annual bonus is stopped.

If you think RM only want a few changes you need to wake up and smell the coffee. This would be just the start. With no union we would have no protection because make no mistake this Tory government will pass new laws to crush all unions.

[SMS1969]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Commit to deliver means exactly that- you will stay out and deliver everything that day. As far as I am aware, you will have a set amount of hours to complete, if you then go over the extra time is banked, up to a certain amount for that week then you claim overtime for the remaining time.

[chrisj]

Just because you think that is what it means different does not mean it is true or even workable as you pointed out.

Where did you folks get those info from by the way; is it from the CWU that is not telling us much or being economical with the truth?

The quickest way to get to the scenario painted by the previous poster is to destroy the company - then we shall never know how benevolent the current royal mail is or could have been even with all the changes...

How we can ever hope to hijack this company with the CWU archaic methods is beyond me! We are going to be given up so much at time when we could least afford to do so; for much less...

* There is so much disinformation from the CWU and some people are just swallowing it all - calling everything propaganda without bothering read, understand and digest the info.

Many many will be very disappointed in the CWu and themselves when this is over.

* I do not think all of RM proposal will yield the cost savings or profitability and competitiveness of the company but I am an employee, what do I know about running a billion pound company...

** There will always be losers and winners in situations of change like this but nothing last forever... We make the best of things and move on with it or move on like some are saying; but why do those that hate their job so much want to take others down with them.

[richietns]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Annualised hours is something they want but as we all know it will not work that smoothly - not in delivery; how is it going to be monitored and summer time does not always mean early finish...

With some of these proposed changes, we know it will cause disruption for people and some will suffer more than others, however, that is where the CWU Union should come in to help their most vulnerable members to ameliorate the worst effects of the changes. The CWu can accept the changes but with lots of caveats and protections where possible.

Sunday working is the same - we do not want it but if that will free the Saturday and Monday, most of us will live with that. Morey, I do not see us working every Sunday or routinely delivering letters every Sunday but that might happen on elections, mother's Day and Christmas and others. There will not be enough parcels to make us a work on Sundays...

Not paying a Sunday premium will stink but if it is on a few occasion so be it; a lot of the other jobs we might think are better also do not pay Sunday premiums - anyways, people tend to knock off early on Sundays...

A lot of us actually go beyond to deliver as we speak; it is just our pride and goodwill...

Our job is actually not that bad and there are lots of worst employers out there.

We will not all be lucky to work in the civil service or Nhs or a few others that provide something similar or slightly better than RM.

Sickness or absent procedure will change whether we like it or not but I actually think RM has not totally finalised the workings, so the CWU can still come in to protect those that need protections; especially those currently in service with underlying health conditions, the stages levels and how to get there or helping more with occupational therapy and finally helping people move on from the job with better IHR benefits.

What we can do as the CWu appears to be doing is just say NO, we want to go back to Agenda for Growth or Pathways to Change...

Again, what is the CWU fighting for? Is it to get rid of ST and hope for a better CEO or to fight the political fight of the haves and have nots?

And when after we agree to all the changes and accept 2% RM decide we need less staff. Also that we need to work longer hours. Also that they need to freeze pay for 5 years. Also they use more and more agency staff. Also that zero hours contracts for all new entrants. Also monitor PDAs to ensure a 4mph walking pace is maintained by everybody. Also we deliver on Bank Holidays including Xmas. Also that the annual bonus is stopped.

If you think RM only want a few changes you need to wake up and smell the coffee. This would be just the start. With no union we would have no protection because make no mistake this Tory government will pass new laws to crush all unions.

Thats what the union are trying to stop a gig economy job.

[chrisj]

Commit to deliver does not mean work beyond your contractual hours or finish time - please you know that already.

Can't see that being the case, if it were, why would RM be bring it in as a change when it would actually be staying the same?

Think the most likely way that they'll do Sunday working is on a rota where every so many weekends you'll be required to work the Sunday

Like I said, some of the changes will evolve as they become unworkable - you also have factor in that letters are not that important these days; they stopped being priority since the Pandemic.

They will not tell you to deliver every single thing on any particular day - it will not happen, let us move from that scaremongering... You deliver the parcels and what cannot be completed within the set hours giving to you will come back. How they are going to work out your changing hours on a daily basis is something that will give most managers a headache that they will just let things carry on as before e.g, 10-6 or 9-5 or 8-4 or in betweens or even hybrids.

Lastly, this is where the CWU ( or any Union that rises out of their ashes) can find ways to make things more bearable. Nothing is set in stone yet!

[fb1969]

Have you read the FAQs issued by Royal Mail?

They, the company that is, explain exactly how "commit to deliver" and "annualised hours" will work.

[sindba]

Just because you think that is what it means different does not mean it is true or even workable as you pointed out.

Where did you folks get those info from by the way; is it from the CWU that is not telling us much or being economical with the truth?

It's in RM's own proposals, crystal clear in black and white.

Your manager will decide if any overtime is necessary, and if so how much. You will have to deliver eveything in that time.

What on earth do you THINK "commit to deliver" means if not "no cutting off"?

[Dexydog]

Commit to deliver is just 3 words put together.
If making you work 2 hours over your time on a particularly busy day is illegal, the union need to be saying so.
Then it can be put to bed, or not.
RM haven't said what our hours will be- they probably don't even know.
It's all smoke and mirrors, disinformation, and quite frankly is one of the reasons the dispute is going nowhere.
It's pathetic on both sides, really.

[sindba]

Commit to deliver is just 3 words put together.
If making you work 2 hours over your time on a particularly busy day is illegal, the union need to be saying so.
Then it can be put to bed, or not.
RM haven't said what our hours will be- they probably don't even know.
It's all smoke and mirrors, disinformation, and quite frankly is one of the reasons the dispute is going nowhere.
It's pathetic on both sides, really.

You won't be "going over your time" though.

Your working hours will be determined by your manager.

Honestly, read RM's proposals

[Dexydog]

That's my point- is it legal for them to say that?
This needs to be addressed.
To be clear- every contract has a start and finish time; as it stands now this can flexed by half an hour as I understand it, but this has to be agreed by BOTH sides.
If RM can ride a coach and horses through that, legally, we have no argument.
I just doubt that is the case- and if so the union need to be saying so.
Perhaps because they're not, maybe we're on stoney ground.

[SMS1969]

It really isn’t difficult to understand, RM proposals are well documented on here. Annualised hours and commit to deliver means you stay out, the manager will have the upper hand and you WILL NOT be able to cut off.

[richietns]

They can propose anything they want the legality is contractual.