Proposed Changes to Allowances and Supplements document...
For any further questions on this subject, please email the team directly at: allowances@royalmail.com
OPTIONS FOR DISCUSSION ONLY AND NOT FORMAL PROPOSALS. ALL OPTIONS SUBJECT TO NEGOTIATION AND CONSULTATION WHERE APPROPRIATE (INCLUDING ANY TIME-SCALES).
https://www.myroyalmail.com/sites/defau ... 202022.pdf
Personalised responses to the questions posted on the original thread promoting this topic...
https://www.myroyalmail.com/sites/defau ... 202022.pdf
ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE
ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!
RMCtv : Allowances - your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
-
POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32612
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
RMCtv : Allowances - your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
hans solo
- Posts: 3238
- Joined: 06 Feb 2011, 18:08
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Rinse repeat rinse
f**k off
f**k off
-
britwrit
- MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
- Posts: 956
- Joined: 22 Apr 2007, 15:12
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
So pay is going to be cut for a lot of older workers, certainly very few under forty?
Sounds ageist to me.
Sounds ageist to me.
-
roman
- Posts: 255
- Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 20:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
If there’s one allowance that’s unfair it’s the workplace coach one. I very rarely see any of these people actually giving any training. Money for old rope as they say !
-
POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32612
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
In the house-Super Simon & Adrian Porter : Reward & Performance Director ⋅ Royal Mail
Simon
So Adrian, Sonya said, if you change the Sunday premium, she's going to resign. What's your take?
Adrian
Clearly, we don't want Sonya to resign, and we want people to have a fair package for a fair amount of work. The company is making a decision. And it's a commercial decision to really look at working over seven days rather than just six days. And so that means change, it means change to help people work when they work. And that then has a knock on effect on what we pay people as well.
Simon
Okay, but let's take Sundays as a for instance, because it's a part of the business that we want to grow. Here it is. And I think what I've heard very clearly from some year is you take this away, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna turn up. So are we just switching this off?
Adrian
No, we're not. So we're looking at how we phase out the Sunday premium over two to three years. So at the moment, there is a premium working on a Sunday, about six pounds an hour. And we're looking at moving that to four pounds an hour in a year's time, two pounds an hour, the year after that, and then it'll be completely phased out after that. So there is going to be a glide path out of the Sunday premium. What we'd like to do in the meantime, is then work with people around other hours, other shifts, because we know that there are lots of potential other changes happening so that we can try and protect as much of people's earnings as possible and right,
Simon
And then the other thing that Sonya mentioned, actually is that, you know, on day one, people will be earning x and then on day two, they'll actually be earning less money. Is that the case?
Adrian
That's not the case as a general rule, because we're in the middle of a paid negotiation with with the union. And so we don't know where that pay negotiation is going to land. That will mean an increase in people's pay wherever we land, because there'll be an increase. Over half of the people don't currently receive these allowances that we're looking at phasing out and stopping. And so for those 45% of people that currently get an allowance that ceasing, they're also going to get a lump sum payment that will be made in advance of when they would have received it.
Simon
The allowances and I think we're going to publish them in terms of absolute clarity, which is I think there's there's 12 allowances, there's one supplement, and there's one premium that we're reviewing, right, so there's like 14 elements.
And there's different numbers of people that are impacted by each individual one, I think when you and I went through it, some were relatively small numbers, some were relatively high in numbers, can you give us a sense of the impact on the team?
Adrian
Absolutely. So you're absolutely right, there's 12 allowances in total. The low numbers are we have one person receiving rural waiting about 10 people that receive the old legacy postbox allowance, and then the maximum one would be the recruitment and retention supplement, which again, we have about 30,000 people that are receiving that based on historical areas of the country where it was difficult to recruit talent in the market.
Simon
Right. Okay. And if based on the current proposals we have, if you're losing one of these allowances as a for instance, yes. Through through the teams, I how do we make sure that they're not suddenly out of pocket? How does that work?
Adrian
So the important thing to remember here is the reason why we're doing this is to create fairness. So fairness across our entire population. Because we want to treat people fairly, we're also going to look at how do we buy them out fairly, as well. So the key point to remember is, this is all part of a proposal, and we're still negotiating with the union. So we don't know where that's going to finally end up, our proposal that's on the table is that those allowances would be paid out over two years. So at the point in time that the allowance will stop, people will receive one payment that will be equivalent of six months allowances, another payment six months later, six months later, six months later. So they will get in advance the two years worth of those allowances that are coming to an end.
Simon
Okay,understood. And some of the allowances, I think we're quite historical and maybe no longer relatively appropriate that we chlorine the money back, or
Adrian
So you're absolutely right. A lot of these allowances go back to previous pay agreements that are decades old, a number of them are 10,20 years plus, the people have been receiving them. And that's part of the reason why we're looking at creating more fairness and consistency. Because the reasons why they existed 20,30 years ago, were probably valid. But the reason why we're continuing to pay the allowance today doesn't make sense. And so by buying them out, we want to create that fairness and consistency for all employees. Now, as I said, the word fair means that we're actually going to treat people fair in terms of how we cease the allowances and how we buy them out. And so as a company, we're not going to be going back and clawing back any money previously, so people should not worry about that.
Simon
Okay. And the other thing that we mentioned, I remember we were chit chatting about this the other day is that some people might need this income for mortgages. And I think you mentioned Universal Credit to me as well from memory. Can you just give a little bit more on that?
Adrian
Sure. So obviously, different lenders have different criteria on what they classify as income and earnings. And I'm not a mortgage advisor, but a number of these allowances are variable in nature, so they're not necessarily paid every single week or every single month so that is unlikely to be used in a mortgage calcula addition, by providing the lump sum and giving people the money in advance, if you're saving for a deposit, because you actually want to buy a house, this will actually benefit you. And you should be able to then get that deposit slightly earlier. For most of the allowances, they're based upon some form of skill or legacy agreement. And so they would not be included necessarily, in what a bank would consider as earnings. Now, the other thing that we're doing as part of the pay deal, in delivery and processing, we have what's called functional supplements. And I know Sonya mentioned the supplements in your conversation with earlier. So at the moment, those functional supplements are paid as an additional weekly amount, the non pensionable. And as part of the pay proposal, we're going to add those supplements directly into everybody's base pay. So the good thing is that the base pay goes up, but it's also going to be pensionable. So people will have a larger amount that will then trigger the pension pay.
Simon
So there were there were 12 allowances we've talked about, but I think there's still another 20 that we're not touching, is that right?
Adrian
Absolutely. So there is a whole host of payments and allowances that the company makes. What we are not touching is anything related to Scottish Highlands, the shift allowances, so all of the variations in shift pay, overtime pay, none of those are being touched at all, and some of the coaching and leadership allowances. None of those are being touched at all.
Simon
So Adrian, Sonya said, if you change the Sunday premium, she's going to resign. What's your take?
Adrian
Clearly, we don't want Sonya to resign, and we want people to have a fair package for a fair amount of work. The company is making a decision. And it's a commercial decision to really look at working over seven days rather than just six days. And so that means change, it means change to help people work when they work. And that then has a knock on effect on what we pay people as well.
Simon
Okay, but let's take Sundays as a for instance, because it's a part of the business that we want to grow. Here it is. And I think what I've heard very clearly from some year is you take this away, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna turn up. So are we just switching this off?
Adrian
No, we're not. So we're looking at how we phase out the Sunday premium over two to three years. So at the moment, there is a premium working on a Sunday, about six pounds an hour. And we're looking at moving that to four pounds an hour in a year's time, two pounds an hour, the year after that, and then it'll be completely phased out after that. So there is going to be a glide path out of the Sunday premium. What we'd like to do in the meantime, is then work with people around other hours, other shifts, because we know that there are lots of potential other changes happening so that we can try and protect as much of people's earnings as possible and right,
Simon
And then the other thing that Sonya mentioned, actually is that, you know, on day one, people will be earning x and then on day two, they'll actually be earning less money. Is that the case?
Adrian
That's not the case as a general rule, because we're in the middle of a paid negotiation with with the union. And so we don't know where that pay negotiation is going to land. That will mean an increase in people's pay wherever we land, because there'll be an increase. Over half of the people don't currently receive these allowances that we're looking at phasing out and stopping. And so for those 45% of people that currently get an allowance that ceasing, they're also going to get a lump sum payment that will be made in advance of when they would have received it.
Simon
The allowances and I think we're going to publish them in terms of absolute clarity, which is I think there's there's 12 allowances, there's one supplement, and there's one premium that we're reviewing, right, so there's like 14 elements.
And there's different numbers of people that are impacted by each individual one, I think when you and I went through it, some were relatively small numbers, some were relatively high in numbers, can you give us a sense of the impact on the team?
Adrian
Absolutely. So you're absolutely right, there's 12 allowances in total. The low numbers are we have one person receiving rural waiting about 10 people that receive the old legacy postbox allowance, and then the maximum one would be the recruitment and retention supplement, which again, we have about 30,000 people that are receiving that based on historical areas of the country where it was difficult to recruit talent in the market.
Simon
Right. Okay. And if based on the current proposals we have, if you're losing one of these allowances as a for instance, yes. Through through the teams, I how do we make sure that they're not suddenly out of pocket? How does that work?
Adrian
So the important thing to remember here is the reason why we're doing this is to create fairness. So fairness across our entire population. Because we want to treat people fairly, we're also going to look at how do we buy them out fairly, as well. So the key point to remember is, this is all part of a proposal, and we're still negotiating with the union. So we don't know where that's going to finally end up, our proposal that's on the table is that those allowances would be paid out over two years. So at the point in time that the allowance will stop, people will receive one payment that will be equivalent of six months allowances, another payment six months later, six months later, six months later. So they will get in advance the two years worth of those allowances that are coming to an end.
Simon
Okay,understood. And some of the allowances, I think we're quite historical and maybe no longer relatively appropriate that we chlorine the money back, or
Adrian
So you're absolutely right. A lot of these allowances go back to previous pay agreements that are decades old, a number of them are 10,20 years plus, the people have been receiving them. And that's part of the reason why we're looking at creating more fairness and consistency. Because the reasons why they existed 20,30 years ago, were probably valid. But the reason why we're continuing to pay the allowance today doesn't make sense. And so by buying them out, we want to create that fairness and consistency for all employees. Now, as I said, the word fair means that we're actually going to treat people fair in terms of how we cease the allowances and how we buy them out. And so as a company, we're not going to be going back and clawing back any money previously, so people should not worry about that.
Simon
Okay. And the other thing that we mentioned, I remember we were chit chatting about this the other day is that some people might need this income for mortgages. And I think you mentioned Universal Credit to me as well from memory. Can you just give a little bit more on that?
Adrian
Sure. So obviously, different lenders have different criteria on what they classify as income and earnings. And I'm not a mortgage advisor, but a number of these allowances are variable in nature, so they're not necessarily paid every single week or every single month so that is unlikely to be used in a mortgage calcula addition, by providing the lump sum and giving people the money in advance, if you're saving for a deposit, because you actually want to buy a house, this will actually benefit you. And you should be able to then get that deposit slightly earlier. For most of the allowances, they're based upon some form of skill or legacy agreement. And so they would not be included necessarily, in what a bank would consider as earnings. Now, the other thing that we're doing as part of the pay deal, in delivery and processing, we have what's called functional supplements. And I know Sonya mentioned the supplements in your conversation with earlier. So at the moment, those functional supplements are paid as an additional weekly amount, the non pensionable. And as part of the pay proposal, we're going to add those supplements directly into everybody's base pay. So the good thing is that the base pay goes up, but it's also going to be pensionable. So people will have a larger amount that will then trigger the pension pay.
Simon
So there were there were 12 allowances we've talked about, but I think there's still another 20 that we're not touching, is that right?
Adrian
Absolutely. So there is a whole host of payments and allowances that the company makes. What we are not touching is anything related to Scottish Highlands, the shift allowances, so all of the variations in shift pay, overtime pay, none of those are being touched at all, and some of the coaching and leadership allowances. None of those are being touched at all.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
poolcued
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 02 Oct 2016, 17:06
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
I’ve always wondered why drivers and non-drivers get the same pay. Doesn’t seem very ‘fair’ to me 
-
roman
- Posts: 255
- Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 20:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Yes that’s probably the most unfair one. As a Royal Mail driver we have the responsibility of keeping the van maintained and the daily/weekly checks. Not to mention if we get stopped by the police for a traffic offence it will effect our own insurance policy.
-
roman
- Posts: 255
- Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 20:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Yes that’s probably the most unfair one.As a Royal Mail driver we have the added responsibility of checking and maintaining the vans and the daily /weekly checks etc…
-
yubin282
- Posts: 969
- Joined: 25 Jul 2014, 19:18
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
you also get to take the van home and not use your own petrol
-
antthepost
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 11 Aug 2017, 18:29
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Ive trained up 4 people on my round over the last year [2 have since left (newbies)]. No mention of any training allowance.
-
POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32612
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Yes there is a daily training allowance.antthepost wrote: ↑11 Aug 2022, 18:20Ive trained up 4 people on my round over the last year [2 have since left (newbies)]. No mention of any training allowance.
Proper training tho-not showing Bob around a walk.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
yellowbelly
- Posts: 3548
- Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 15:51
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
-
roman
- Posts: 255
- Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 20:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Yes perhaps Royal Mail can reinstate the van allowance.What would happen if we all got cheesed off and handed back our driving duties to van share !!!
-
Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Potentially unofficial industrial action if it was an organised effort.
Possible redeployment in another unit.
It depends if there were non driving positions available.
For those employed as drivers in at least the last 10 years possible breach of contract.
There is a policy for those who invalidate themselves from driving (usually on medical grounds) but it has its limits due to business requirements.
Not a route I would advise as a rep.
To be honest having been a driver for 30 years (who lost the sick squid) I don't know what the issue is, it's just a thing you do at your work not a special skill. You can't really imagine a DPD guy getting a "driving allowance".
Only dead fish follow the current
-
postslippete
- Posts: 4032
- Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Allowances – your questions answered plus important, detailed attachments
Which office does that? Also, many non drivers still get the privilege of finishing/getting dropped off at home leaving the driver to drive back to the depot dropping off all the slip lefts and keys and by the time they get home their mate has had their feet up for an hour.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.