Royal Mail chairman says firm is at 'crossroads moment' as it balances union action with productivity woes

[Schiff]

I give up on this union. All mouth and no trousers.

At least this pussyfooting about gives the members a chance to build up their own strike fund. Pretend that you are striking one day a week and put a fifth of your weekly pay away for when the CWU eventually grow some balls.

Martin. The 2 disputes shouldn't be linked. I want us out at the earliest opportunity to protest at the insulting 2% payout. Terms and conditions are a completely different issue. Members need a pay rise to reflect the increased cost of living NOW - not the usual backdated Bulldung just before Christmas.

[jessicarabbit]

Thanks for the detailed update Martin. Members understand that this the fight of their lives and many although weren't around in 2009 have been around for failed action more recently. We must get things right and legal but also show the business we mean business. More comms not just from you but nationally form the top down would help out cause for sure.

[Acca Dacca]

Martin. The 2 disputes shouldn't be linked. I want us out at the earliest opportunity to protest at the insulting 2% payout. Terms and conditions are a completely different issue.

Isnt that whats happening?

There will be a separate ballot on terms and conditions

[yellowbelly]

............

Remember you cannot take strike action to fight Royal Mails executive action on change by taking industrial action on pay.

Hence why the need to have both ballots in our locker. The timing works for us as well as we are stronger taking action from September onwards then in August.

It's frustrating but I can sort of understand what Martin is saying here.

Say RM said after the announcement of the first ballot result 'Ok you've got us bang to rights, here's 5%, no strings' or
some combination of a certain percentage rise and a lump sum - a lot of people might reluctantly accept that and
go back/carry on working.

But then a month later RM start trying it on with all the changes they want through EA. Would people have the appetite
then for another ballot and IA after they've got the 5% in their pocket? Maybe, maybe not. So CWU view is that it's best
to have both votes for IA locked and loaded as people are rightly revved up for it.

Might there also be some scope for RM's lawyers to claim that the second ballot was not conducted properly if
the ballot papers were sent out during a period of mail delivery disruption due to IA already taking place?

[Schiff]

I hope that nobody would even consider accepting 5% as the most basic pay rise. Given inflation that would be a substantial pay cut.

Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.

[norris9]

Will be interesting to know the improved offer that managers have just received, which they are due to vote on over the next coming days.

[Acca Dacca]

I hope that nobody would even consider accepting 5% as the most basic pay rise. Given inflation that would be a substantial pay cut.

Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.

They ARE!

What arent you getting?

[matrix123]

at breaking point at having to work my ass off, nearly day of every week for a decent wage to get some sort of life. While suffering with no work life balance. Union need to sort this s**t out for us ASAP, sick of excuses,if's and buts. and f**k their holiday pay agreement too. con

[Woody Guthrie]

I hope that nobody would even consider accepting 5% as the most basic pay rise. Given inflation that would be a substantial pay cut.

Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.

They ARE!

What arent you getting?

No they aren't....
How the hell do you word an IA ballot to protect you from anything other than a specific threat?

We can't take strike action against any old change to our terms and conditions, that isn't going to hold up.

How can we fight executive action unless Royal Mail specifically threaten or impose it?

This second ballot is a legal minefield and probably likely to pull the first one down with it. An absolutely disastrous move that will never produce the same result which will give Royal Mail the idea that support is shrinking before we even hit the gate.

It's a stalling tactic because the overthinkers have taken over this dispute, the same guys that brought you the last shambles and the one before it.

Bottle merchants thinking they are big boy strategists living on past glories that weren't even theirs..

[Acca Dacca]

I hope that nobody would even consider accepting 5% as the most basic pay rise. Given inflation that would be a substantial pay cut.

Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.

They ARE!

What arent you getting?

No they aren't....
How the hell do you word an IA ballot to protect you from anything other than a specific threat?

We can't take strike action against any old change to our terms and conditions, that isn't going to hold up.

How can we fight executive action unless Royal Mail specifically threaten or impose it?

This second ballot is a legal minefield and probably likely to pull the first one down with it. An absolutely disastrous move that will never produce the same result which will give Royal Mail the idea that support is shrinking before we even hit the gate.

It's a stalling tactic because the overthinkers have taken over this dispute, the same guys that brought you the last shambles and the one before it.

Bottle merchants thinking they are big boy strategists living on past glories that weren't even theirs..

I never said it was right but how am I wrong that this current ballot is about pay only and the union are planning a second ballot on changes to working practices and conditions etc? That is what the CWU have said is happening.

He said ''Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.''

I said they are being kept seperate i.e the question about strike action on this ballot was only about pay.

Arent they? Or isnt that the intention at least?

I understand what you mean regarding you cant ballot for hypothetical scenarios. I assumed the issue was not adhering to the last agreement.

[Woody Guthrie]

He said ''Terms and conditions are an entirely different matter and any industrial action regarding these must be kept separate from the strikes regarding pay.'

What are we going to do, go out on a Monday over pay then Wednesday over terms and conditions?

This second ballot is a non-starter so close to the first ballot, Royal Mail will run to the courts claiming the members don't even know what they are voting for.

I'm not having a go at you just the ridiculous notion that you can run two simultaneous disputes over pay and terms and conditions and somehow keep them separate.

Royal Mail have already said there won't be a deal on pay without change, they know if we keep them separate assuming there's a decent offer the members will accept the pay and then reject the changes, why wouldn't we?

Sounds great but even they aren't that gullible so any pay deal from the employer will have to come with the caveat that we accept the changes therefore the whole thing is just a stunt, a stalling tactic.

Like I said bottle merchants playing silly games while we go bankrupt.

[jessicarabbit]

It's scary when you put it like that. However it must be possible to have 2 separate disputes on going with an employer. Terry has always tried to make it very clear that they are separate disputes. The problem is the business only does pay linked to change. It would be nice if we could break this cycle but the cynic in me thinks you are probably right and we are all being readied for the shafting of our lives and being sold it as Deal of the Century 3

[Woody Guthrie]

It's scary when you put it like that. However it must be possible to have 2 separate disputes on going with an employer. Terry has always tried to make it very clear that they are separate disputes. The problem is the business only does pay linked to change. It would be nice if we could break this cycle but the cynic in me thinks you are probably right and we are all being readied for the shafting of our lives and being sold it as Deal of the Century 3

There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that Royal Mail want a second ballot on terms and conditions, they've done everything in their power to provoke it from the original ridiculous and unworkable proposals to direct gaslighting of members, hints of executive action and even the latest parcel hub document which if you study it makes very little sense and looks like it was put together by a five year old.

If it looks like Royal Mail want us to ballot on terms and conditions even Martin should be wondering... why?

And if he's not we should be wondering... why not?

[richietns]

What are we going to do, go out on a Monday over pay then Wednesday over terms and conditions?

You could do that is there a reason why you couldn't a strike is a strike would it not work the same as just going out for one issue might as well have them all in the same time period.

[smartin1982]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ike-action


This is why they’ve wound us up and wanted us to ballot on multiple issues.
They’ll be looking to hit the union massively financially, or even bankrupt them with minimal impact to service or costs. They knew this was coming and they’ve been laughing.
Disgusting Tory scum.