Can you transfer the RMPP to a SIPP?

[RobertT]

I didn't say that the RMPP has been invested in debt for 40 years I said that it has worked for the previous 40 years, and past performance is no guarantee of future results.

I felt you implied it!

During the 90's most of the Pension was invested in equities when we were in a surplus.

The 90's actually coincided with the 13 year(1990-2003) pension holiday. The scheme was probably in surplus before it, but it definitely wasn't by the end if it.
It then also suffered due to the dot com bubble bursting.

In 2012 the assets and liabilities were taken on by the tax payer as part of the privatisation of the company.

I am merely pointing out that we are in the biggest debt bubble in Human History and our Pension is invested in it!

Anyone who takes an interest in their pension will probably know already.
I am merely answering by pointing out there is an insurance policy in the form of a profit making company, and a fund set up specifically to bail out DB pension schemes should the sponsoring company go bust.

DB pension benefits don't just go down in the same way as DC pots and CDC schemes potentially do!

[milly]

If it all goes that badly wrong there will probably be food and fuel riots and complete socio-economic meltdown possibly leading to violent revolution.

I doubt an SIPP or indeed a pension will be much comfort in that situation.
Perhaps invest in some long life milk, dehydrated food and a concrete bunker Milly.

Or cash is good until this plays out.
Hence my AVC being 100% cash.

[RobertT]

Or cash is good until this plays out.
Hence my AVC being 100% cash.

Time in the market is usually better than trying to time the market.

[milly]

Or cash is good until this plays out.
Hence my AVC being 100% cash.

Time in the market is usually better than trying to time the market.

I agree but we are not living in normal times.

[Schiff]

Or cash is good until this plays out.
Hence my AVC being 100% cash.

Time in the market is usually better than trying to time the market.

I agree but we are not living in normal times.

If you genuinely believe that there is a debt bubble about to burst in this country then cash is the absolute last thing that you need. As government debt dwarfs personal debt then there would almost certainly be large scale printing of money, devaluation of sterling and inflation levels close to 50% than 10%. Cash would quickly become almost worthless.

Having a DB pension would leave you in a much better position than the majority of the population.

[milly]

Or cash is good until this plays out.
Hence my AVC being 100% cash.

Time in the market is usually better than trying to time the market.

I agree but we are not living in normal times.

If you genuinely believe that there is a debt bubble about to burst in this country then cash is the absolute last thing that you need. As government debt dwarfs personal debt then there would almost certainly be large scale printing of money, devaluation of sterling and inflation levels close to 50% than 10%. Cash would quickly become almost worthless.

Having a DB pension would leave you in a much better position than the majority of the population.

Long term cash is terrible but not after an asset collapse.

[NorthernBoy]

Milly if you contact the RMPP they will give you a cetv value for your benefits.

I did this last year and thought the the cetv was good for the amount of pension given up. Roughly i would lose £3200 for a cetv of 130k. I am 51 now and will look into this when I am nearer 55 as I have heard you have a better chance of getting a positive recommendation the older you are. (Although still hard to get though)

[milly]

Milly if you contact the RMPP they will give you a cetv value for your benefits.

I did this last year and thought the the cetv was good for the amount of pension given up. Roughly i would lose £3200 for a cetv of 130k. I am 51 now and will look into this when I am nearer 55 as I have heard you have a better chance of getting a positive recommendation the older you are. (Although still hard to get though)

Thank you, I will look into it.

[jetblack]

I generally agree that you are far safer sticking with the DB scheme.

However, who would you rather trust with the security and growth of Milly's own money ?
a) the City, whose sole contribution to the world appears to be siphoning moneys earned by others to the 1%
b) Milly

Considering that IT IS OUR MONEY it seems incredibly difficult to gain access and/or choose investment vehicles for said money.
It is however more of an issue for DC/CDC members than DB , where return is guaranteed.

[milly]

I generally agree that you are far safer sticking with the DB scheme.

However, who would you rather trust with the security and growth of Milly's own money ?
a) the City, whose sole contribution to the world appears to be siphoning moneys earned by others to the 1%
b) Milly

Considering that IT IS OUR MONEY it seems incredibly difficult to gain access and/or choose investment vehicles for said money.
It is however more of an issue for DC/CDC members than DB , where return is guaranteed.

I am expecting to lose a massive chunk of our Pension within the next few years as the Trustees suffer from recency bias with regards to investing in debt, they will also be looking to invest in ideology based investments such as ESG.
Of course I am only a humble Postman, what do I know?

[RobertT]

I generally agree that you are far safer sticking with the DB scheme.

However, who would you rather trust with the security and growth of Milly's own money ?
a) the City, whose sole contribution to the world appears to be siphoning moneys earned by others to the 1%
b) Milly

Considering that IT IS OUR MONEY it seems incredibly difficult to gain access and/or choose investment vehicles for said money.
It is however more of an issue for DC/CDC members than DB , where return is guaranteed.

The maths clearly say that transferring out of the RMPP and into cash is a poor decision.

The pension gives an annual uplift in line with RPI, up to a max of 5%, so does represent a decline in value compared to current inflation levels.

But if a transfer was made and the proceeds put into cash, the annual uplift would be a lot less than 5%. meaning an even bigger decline in value.
Cash funds can actually go down too!

And that's even assuming an IFA can be found that is willing to take it on. Which is highly unlikely in my opinion.

Transferring into cash from AVC's or a DC scheme is a slightly different thing, as they are basically just savings accounts(with pension rules), rather than a pension with defined benefits based on pay and hours worked and with 2 levels of guarantee!

Milly hasn't mentioned where his AVC cash was previously invested, or any of the other options available! Just cash!
Nor has he mentioned his age, or when he intends to retire. Which are important factors to consider when changing investment plans.

[RobertT]

I am expecting to lose a massive chunk of our Pension within the next few years as the Trustees suffer from recency bias with regards to investing in debt, they will also be looking to invest in ideology based investments such as ESG.
Of course I am only a humble Postman, what do I know?

You are in the DB scheme aren't you?

If so, your pension will not go down!

No offence, but you don't seem to understand how DB schemes work, or able to take on the replies already given.

[milly]

I am expecting to lose a massive chunk of our Pension within the next few years as the Trustees suffer from recency bias with regards to investing in debt, they will also be looking to invest in ideology based investments such as ESG.
Of course I am only a humble Postman, what do I know?

You are in the DB scheme aren't you?

If so, your pension will not go down!

No offence, but you don't seem to understand how DB schemes work, or able to take on the replies already given.

In nominally terms it won't go down but in real terms the Pension's purchasing power will be destroyed due to persistent inflation.
Too much money has been printed by the BOE and their only way out is to inflate away the debt, the BOE has no intention of tackling inflation.

[milly]

I am expecting to lose a massive chunk of our Pension within the next few years as the Trustees suffer from recency bias with regards to investing in debt, they will also be looking to invest in ideology based investments such as ESG.
Of course I am only a humble Postman, what do I know?

You are in the DB scheme aren't you?

If so, your pension will not go down!

No offence, but you don't seem to understand how DB schemes work, or able to take on the replies already given.

In nominal terms it won't go down but in real terms the Pension's purchasing power will be destroyed due to persistent inflation.
Too much money has been printed by the BOE and their only way out is to inflate away the debt, the BOE has no intention of tackling inflation.

[RobertT]

I am expecting to lose a massive chunk of our Pension within the next few years as the Trustees suffer from recency bias with regards to investing in debt, they will also be looking to invest in ideology based investments such as ESG.
Of course I am only a humble Postman, what do I know?

You are in the DB scheme aren't you?

If so, your pension will not go down!

No offence, but you don't seem to understand how DB schemes work, or able to take on the replies already given.

In nominally terms it won't go down but in real terms the Pension's purchasing power will be destroyed due to persistent inflation.
Too much money has been printed by the BOE and their only way out is to inflate away the debt, the BOE has no intention of tackling inflation.

And by transferring out into cash, it'll lose even more purchasing power!

Plus, don't underestimate the compounding effects of an index linked pension over 20-30 years. Your transferred out money, wherever it ultimately ends up, will need to perform exceptionally well to keep pace.

There's a reason most IFA's won't sanction a transfer!