Chances of success at tribunal

[eggraidonmojo]

Hi,

I am one of the many who has missed out on a holiday payment because I was under by a small amount (30 minutes!) in one month. I took three weeks' annual leave in that month, so there wasn't much opportunity for overtime.

My breakdown looks like this:

P7: 7.50
P8: 29.00
P9: Pass
P10: 26.75
P11: 11.00
P12: 9.25

I don't do a huge amount of overtime, but I'd say I book some extended and/or work a rest day or two each month. Despite this being a small amount, I'd argue that I regularly perform overtime. Obviously this is not the definition of "regular" that the union and the company have agreed upon - and I understand that the union gained something - particularly for part timers - by accepting this definition (couldn't they have got it down to 7 and a half hours though?!)

I'm thinking about putting a case to ACAS by early conciliation and seeing what happens. Does anybody have any experience of doing this? What are the chances of success? Would I have to do a lot of work myself?

Also, I saw somewhere that somebody had put up the formula for working out how many hours we are owed. Is this it below?

Overtime hours performed (over 8 hours) x 6
Divided by 24
x2
= Hours due to be paid

[HairyHobbit]

Would also like to know. I’m at 150 hours total over the periods but missed out by 1 hour on 1 period…

[yellowbelly]

Also, I saw somewhere that somebody had put up the formula for working out how many hours we are owed. Is this it below?

Overtime hours performed (over 8 hours) x 6
Divided by 24
x2
= Hours due to be paid

Almost, it depends on how much leave in weeks you are entitled to. You must have performed 8 hours OT
in each qualifying period.

If 4 weeks the calculation is:

Add up total OT hours over the 6 month qualifying period,
divide by 24 (ie the number of weeks in 6 months less the two weeks holiday)
and multiply by 2 (to get the total for 2 weeks holiday).

If 6 weeks the calculation is:

Add up total OT hours over the 6 month qualifying period,
divide by 23 (again number of weeks in 6 months less your three weeks holiday)
and multiply by 3 (to get the total for 3 weeks holiday)

[HTPostman]

I’ve not heard of anyone who’s lost their ACAS/tribunal case but I have heard of plenty (including myself) who did get a payout through ACAS. End of the day you’re entitled to that money and I’d be surprised if RM went all the way to fight your case.

I’m reading messages from a lot of people who’ve missed out and are unhappy and there’s 2 ways they can go about it.

1. Complain to their line manager and DOM, email Simon, tell Terry and Dave how unfair it is, send strongly worded letters to head office, start petitions, threaten to leave the union, post rants on social media. Absolutely none of these will result in a penny of holiday pay paid.

Or

2. Take a deep breath, log onto the ACAS website and start a claim. It will take time and it’s frustrating, but this is the only way of getting holiday pay paid out.

[eggraidonmojo]

Thanks for the replies all,

I decided to put in a claim through ACAS early conciliation. I got some money a few years back this way, so it's worth a try. We'll see what happens!

[Kaning It]

I’ve not heard of anyone who’s lost their ACAS/tribunal case but I have heard of plenty (including myself) who did get a payout through ACAS. End of the day you’re entitled to that money and I’d be surprised if RM went all the way to fight your case.

I’m reading messages from a lot of people who’ve missed out and are unhappy and there’s 2 ways they can go about it.

1. Complain to their line manager and DOM, email Simon, tell Terry and Dave how unfair it is, send strongly worded letters to head office, start petitions, threaten to leave the union, post rants on social media. Absolutely none of these will result in a penny of holiday pay paid.

Or

2. Take a deep breath, log onto the ACAS website and start a claim. It will take time and it’s frustrating, but this is the only way of getting holiday pay paid out.

Bang on!

[HTPostman]

I’ve not heard of anyone who’s lost their ACAS/tribunal case but I have heard of plenty (including myself) who did get a payout through ACAS. End of the day you’re entitled to that money and I’d be surprised if RM went all the way to fight your case.

I’m reading messages from a lot of people who’ve missed out and are unhappy and there’s 2 ways they can go about it.

1. Complain to their line manager and DOM, email Simon, tell Terry and Dave how unfair it is, send strongly worded letters to head office, start petitions, threaten to leave the union, post rants on social media. Absolutely none of these will result in a penny of holiday pay paid.

Or

2. Take a deep breath, log onto the ACAS website and start a claim. It will take time and it’s frustrating, but this is the only way of getting holiday pay paid out.

Bang on!

I shouldn’t get frustrated by it (hey, I got my holiday pay so I’m alright Jack) but I’ve tried to help a colleague out and have sent her the ACAS form, she’s pretty much told me to sod off because she’s, and I quote, ‘sending a letter to Royal Mail HQ telling them how disgraceful the agreement is.’

[world class male]

i put an acas claim in after the last period, got a claim number and didn't hear anything for months, then received an email saying it had been thrown out due to no further communication from me!
oh well

[eggraidonmojo]

i put an acas claim in after the last period, got a claim number and didn't hear anything for months, then received an email saying it had been thrown out due to no further communication from me!
oh well

I've been told I need to call acas to "agree next steps"

[HTPostman]

i put an acas claim in after the last period, got a claim number and didn't hear anything for months, then received an email saying it had been thrown out due to no further communication from me!
oh well

That’s really crap of them.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m surprised there aren’t any solicitors/lawyers jumping on this like with the PIP scandal - end of the day you’re entitled to the average you’ve worked. When I’m reading reports of people doing 50, 60, sometimes 80, 90 or even 100 hours a month extra hour then missing 1 month period by a matter of minutes, in my opinion that’s clearly regular overtime and a solicitor would have a field day.

[Kaning It]

i put an acas claim in after the last period, got a claim number and didn't hear anything for months, then received an email saying it had been thrown out due to no further communication from me!
oh well

email them and ask them to reinstate it as nothing was sent to you.

[Dexydog]

My experience with ACAS is they are a toothless waste of space.
They literally do nothing.
Supposed to be a go between.
They claim to liase with the employer who just ignores them until the time limit has passed.
Complete waste of taxpayer money.
If you do get to tribunal you're on your own.

[WASD]

You can get free representative if i remember rightly, if it goes to court.

[eggraidonmojo]

Just a quick update for those who might be interested:

I went to early conciliation with acas and they called me to interview me about my claim. I had a bit of trouble explaining the intricacies of the case, but I think they got my central point that I regularly perform overtime (i.e. every month I perform some overtime) and that the collective agreement's definition of 'regular' overtime as 8 hours or more per period is arbitrary and could just as easily be some other amount of hours (1 or 5 or 12 or 34.5 - for example). I have been unfairly disadvantaged because I did not perform the minimum amount in one period. I also made the point that if I took four weeks' annual leave or was sick for four weeks then I would be disadvantaged: In the first case I would end up in the slightly absurd position of not getting my average pay when on annual leave because I took annual leave!

After all this, acas notifies the company of my claim and they wait to hear back from them. They attempt to get a reply in six weeks but the company can just ignore me and let the six week period lapse. They could also decide to pay me out. If the company ignore me or tell me that they do not think I have a case then it is up to me to either give up or continue to an employment tribunal.

[Ste.Mc]

Just a quick update for those who might be interested:

I went to early conciliation with acas and they called me to interview me about my claim. I had a bit of trouble explaining the intricacies of the case, but I think they got my central point that I regularly perform overtime (i.e. every month I perform some overtime) and that the collective agreement's definition of 'regular' overtime as 8 hours or more per period is arbitrary and could just as easily be some other amount of hours (1 or 5 or 12 or 34.5 - for example). I have been unfairly disadvantaged because I did not perform the minimum amount in one period. I also made the point that if I took four weeks' annual leave or was sick for four weeks then I would be disadvantaged: In the first case I would end up in the slightly absurd position of not getting my average pay when on annual leave because I took annual leave!

After all this, acas notifies the company of my claim and they wait to hear back from them. They attempt to get a reply in six weeks but the company can just ignore me and let the six week period lapse. They could also decide to pay me out. If the company ignore me or tell me that they do not think I have a case then it is up to me to either give up or continue to an employment tribunal.

I've just done my own thread on here about the same issues.

Albeit mine is that I've worked the job since October 2020 as agency until March 2022 where I finally got my contract. I've been doing regular overtime since I first started in October....

Since March I've had a 24hr contract but I work around 45-50 hours a week. But because I wasn't employed for the first 3 months I didn't commit to 8hrs regular overtime so therefore I am not entitled to my overtime holiday pay.

I think I'm going to speak to ACAS myself as I can't see how I can work 8hrs for the first 3 months/periods when I wasn't employed directly by Royal Mail.

That holiday pay is legally mine so it's frustrating that they are withholding it from me.