Payrise

[postslippete]

Can't believe that some on here are prepared to sacrifice Terms & Cons in exchange for a rise in wages


Sick absence occurs because of the nature of our job working outdoors in all weathers delivering cartloads of mail and packets day in/day out. The fitness required for our work is totally different to a desk job so symptoms like body aches, fever or fatigue are more taxing to an ageing workforce.

Any pay rise should be a reflection of inflation and the cost of living rather than strings and productivity targets

[mjd24]

Personally I think we need the sick cover we have. The job entails working in all weathers were the chance of having a bad accident / dog attack could put you off work for a while. Also it seems stress/ mental health is now a issue with the job with posties feeling pushed to clear frames work over there time and the job getting on top of them.

It's not the genuine sickness they would be after, it would be the first three days of paid sick absence.

The hangovers and the football matches, last minute weddings, festivals and parties.

I think to be fair a lot of their sick absence could be reduced by bringing the annual leave system into the 21st century. It is embarrassingly rigid and unwieldy.

Perhaps the ability to book ad hoc single days on the app may address this if managers are not allowed to screw it up.

Good point on holidays in all the places I have worked I,ve never came across how difficult it is to get time off from Royal Mail

Its actually quite shocking when you compare it to most other places of work. To have to choose your weeks off so far in advance, and then its almost impossible to get a Saturday off unless you request it months and months in advance and get lucky.

I think we get used to it being this way the longer we’re in the job, but really we should be trying to force a change in how things are done.

[Acca Dacca]

Personally I think we need the sick cover we have. The job entails working in all weathers were the chance of having a bad accident / dog attack could put you off work for a while. Also it seems stress/ mental health is now a issue with the job with posties feeling pushed to clear frames work over there time and the job getting on top of them.

It's not the genuine sickness they would be after, it would be the first three days of paid sick absence.

Can you not be genuinely sick for one, two or three days or am I missing something?

[richietns]

Personally I think we need the sick cover we have. The job entails working in all weathers were the chance of having a bad accident / dog attack could put you off work for a while. Also it seems stress/ mental health is now a issue with the job with posties feeling pushed to clear frames work over there time and the job getting on top of them.

It's not the genuine sickness they would be after, it would be the first three days of paid sick absence.

Can you not be genuinely sick for one, two or three days or am I missing something?

I don't think it would deter the hangover or odd day off people which never really take more than one day off they would simply not get paid for there chosen day if you're ill from a hangover or whatever they very rarely take more than one day.
Are royal mail actually thinking of three days unpaid or is that just your thoughts.

[Woody Guthrie]

Are royal mail actually thinking of three days unpaid or is that just your thoughts.

It's just my thoughts based on the fact that it's something they've wanted to do for a long time and sick absence is high on their list of priorities at the moment.

It's obviously not something we would like to happen but the actual sick pay policy is not a negotiated agreement and of course you can be genuinely sick for one or two days but we have to be honest with ourselves as well, are the majority of single day absences really necessary/genuine sick or could they be better dealt with using a more flexible leave system?

Especially if it meant fewer people on the attendance procedure and ultimately fewer people dismissed?

[priority102]

Whatever your reason for being sick is - be it a chronic ongoing illness or a "can't be bothered" day off here and there, every sick day is classed by those at the top as a cost to the business and as we all know, every cost is under the magnifying glass now in order to keep the shareholders appeased.

Just like clock in clock out/PDA Actuals/Trimble/excess management etc, sickness stats are being produced 7 days a week for those pulling the purse strings. Hence why Simon keeps raising it.

I see so many comments on here about just giving a no strings pay rise - it isn't going to happen! Why are they called pay NEGOTIATIONS? Because a negotiation is give and take/compromise - in this case they give cash, but want something back, and usually the terms and conditions are the only pot they can dip into to get their bit back.

It's now a business, not a service sadly.

[Rommagic]

Day 12.

[norris9]

Whatever your reason for being sick is - be it a chronic ongoing illness or a "can't be bothered" day off here and there, every sick day is classed by those at the top as a cost to the business and as we all know, every cost is under the magnifying glass now in order to keep the shareholders appeased.

Just like clock in clock out/PDA Actuals/Trimble/excess management etc, sickness stats are being produced 7 days a week for those pulling the purse strings. Hence why Simon keeps raising it.

I see so many comments on here about just giving a no strings pay rise - it isn't going to happen! Why are they called pay NEGOTIATIONS? Because a negotiation is give and take/compromise - in this case they give cash, but want something back, and usually the terms and conditions are the only pot they can dip into to get their bit back.

It's now a business, not a service sadly.

1. Surely at a bare minimum they should raise our wages as much as the National Living Wage has gone up with no changes to T&C's.

2. Sickness - what do Royal Mail do above and beyond what the law says in terms of sickness pay? Obviously they need to at least stick to UK law. Sickness is standard in any business. What doesn't help is the job is physical and injuries happen.

3. I have heard people mention - not just on here - but people from other mail centres that they have posties going home an hour or more early. Is this rife in Royal Mail? if it is what is Royal Mail playing at? reduce your staff in the mail centres this is happening and make sure they work all their hours! If they want to save money - why is this even happening?

[WASD]

I think the whole sick pay thing is a farse, but so is everything in this company. Encouraged poor work ethics through and through, no responsibility taken for anything, includes those at top.

I was brought up on saving for a rainy day was wise. Now it's just all credit here, credit there. No wonder people are feeling scared about this year's increases.

Anyhow, payrise of 1% or 10%, just kicking the can down the road. No better working conditions, no thought given on how to retain staff, same problems, same lack of solutions.

I perfectly understand your approach to saving for the rainy days and I do exactly same. However this should be irrelevant to the payrise we should all receive. If the company will not be paying more in line with inflation or at least to keep the gap from the minimum wage. Do you think it will help to retain or recruit people? If trend of pay freeze would continue along with the ever increasing living costs very quickly you would realise that you have to start dipping into your savings and you are unable to save anymore and soon you end up broke while you continue to wreck your health for royal mail. Most likely at that point you would have left for something a lot less demanding paying similar money because everything else would have caught up in terms of pay.

I'm not sure how much of a payrise would keep people at my office to be honest. In my office it's the newbies who are getting shafted the most, and are quick to leave also. Since i've been here ~3/4yrs, the staff who start/ed after me, i think it sits around 50% retention rate(!) for them. Then the oldies are slowly retiring and some of the lucky ones get on those more sustainable rounds.

My finances are sound and i do like the job, so i'd take better working conditions over any payrise. But the company is just utter utter trash. I don't wanna be here come xmas, if covid hadn't screwed my plans up i'd not be here now. The company couldn't chang its ways even if it tried.

[Woody Guthrie]

Sickness - what do Royal Mail do above and beyond what the law says in terms of sickness pay?

Statutory sick pay is £99.35 a week for 28 weeks.
We get full pay.
So... a lot.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

If management weren't so keen for us to be clambering all over each other indoors and then sharing vans with various colleagues during the ongoing pandemic, perhaps not so many OPGs would have needed to isolate so much during a "once in a lifetime" event that Covid will hopefully be. Simon throwing his toys out of the pram about sickness costs is laughable considering how Covid H&S has been dealt with at Royal Mail, while they've been raking it huge profit margins on the huge upturn of online shopping since the pandemic began. Plus they've just increased first class stamps to 95p.

[blacov]

I think the whole sick pay thing is a farse, but so is everything in this company. Encouraged poor work ethics through and through, no responsibility taken for anything, includes those at top.

I was brought up on saving for a rainy day was wise. Now it's just all credit here, credit there. No wonder people are feeling scared about this year's increases.

Anyhow, payrise of 1% or 10%, just kicking the can down the road. No better working conditions, no thought given on how to retain staff, same problems, same lack of solutions.

I perfectly understand your approach to saving for the rainy days and I do exactly same. However this should be irrelevant to the payrise we should all receive. If the company will not be paying more in line with inflation or at least to keep the gap from the minimum wage. Do you think it will help to retain or recruit people? If trend of pay freeze would continue along with the ever increasing living costs very quickly you would realise that you have to start dipping into your savings and you are unable to save anymore and soon you end up broke while you continue to wreck your health for royal mail. Most likely at that point you would have left for something a lot less demanding paying similar money because everything else would have caught up in terms of pay.

I'm not sure how much of a payrise would keep people at my office to be honest. In my office it's the newbies who are getting shafted the most, and are quick to leave also. Since i've been here ~3/4yrs, the staff who start/ed after me, i think it sits around 50% retention rate(!) for them. Then the oldies are slowly retiring and some of the lucky ones get on those more sustainable rounds.

My finances are sound and i do like the job, so i'd take better working conditions over any payrise. But the company is just utter utter trash. I don't wanna be here come xmas, if covid hadn't screwed my plans up i'd not be here now. The company couldn't chang its ways even if it tried.

My situation is almost like for like with yours in regards to the office culture and finances. However what I am trying to say is that before we hit living costs crisis and certainly some 5-10years ago. Royal Mail pay was very good compared to similar roles, not too mention the job hasn't been that hard too. Now they have made the job harder and the pay is slightly blending in with the crowd, now with the living costs crisis it is absolutely necessary to offer a generous pay rise. Otherwise it will be quick race to the bottom. Oldies will retire, newbies won't be joining and certainly won't be staying long term and those in the middle will take the piss and get another job elsewhere or will leave too as other jobs will be paying similar money. In my opinion this pay deal can be crucial both for the staff and the business.

[Hyrrokkin]

Whatever your reason for being sick is - be it a chronic ongoing illness or a "can't be bothered" day off here and there, every sick day is classed by those at the top as a cost to the business and as we all know, every cost is under the magnifying glass now in order to keep the shareholders appeased.

Just like clock in clock out/PDA Actuals/Trimble/excess management etc, sickness stats are being produced 7 days a week for those pulling the purse strings. Hence why Simon keeps raising it.

I see so many comments on here about just giving a no strings pay rise - it isn't going to happen! Why are they called pay NEGOTIATIONS? Because a negotiation is give and take/compromise - in this case they give cash, but want something back, and usually the terms and conditions are the only pot they can dip into to get their bit back.

It's now a business, not a service sadly.

WHY !!!

Why do we have to accept that position as a matter of course/fact - a pay rise no more no less with NO conditions
When did it become the norm to accept erosion off our t&c for a pittance extra money every year...
CWU have meekly accvepted this like everything else...pathetic and weak

[Woody Guthrie]

Why do we have to accept that position as a matter of course/fact - a pay rise no more no less with NO conditions

The logic is threefold.

1.Negotiating change with pay should in theory lead to a higher reward package because the union also has something to bargain with.

2.If you do not offer a reward package with major change there's every chance you'll never get the members to accept it. Who's gonna vote for bad news?

3.If everything was negotiated separately they would be constantly negotiating something and who could afford all those biscuits?

[priority102]

Whatever your reason for being sick is - be it a chronic ongoing illness or a "can't be bothered" day off here and there, every sick day is classed by those at the top as a cost to the business and as we all know, every cost is under the magnifying glass now in order to keep the shareholders appeased.

Just like clock in clock out/PDA Actuals/Trimble/excess management etc, sickness stats are being produced 7 days a week for those pulling the purse strings. Hence why Simon keeps raising it.

I see so many comments on here about just giving a no strings pay rise - it isn't going to happen! Why are they called pay NEGOTIATIONS? Because a negotiation is give and take/compromise - in this case they give cash, but want something back, and usually the terms and conditions are the only pot they can dip into to get their bit back.

It's now a business, not a service sadly.

WHY !!!

Why do we have to accept that position as a matter of course/fact - a pay rise no more no less with NO conditions
When did it become the norm to accept erosion off our t&c for a pittance extra money every year...
CWU have meekly accepted this like everything else...pathetic and weak

No - the membership have accepted it! The CWU are probably as peed off with the deals but they get to a point where you can go no further. Each and every new deal negotiated is then put to you the membership to vote on, with 2 options....YES or NO. If it is a majority YES then it is implemented. If it is a majority NO, back to the table it goes.

As I've said before, many who vote YES only look at the percentage pay increase and back pay, not the claw back small print. THAT, along with those who can't even be bothered to vote, are a big part of the problem.