Clock IN & OUT

[Tman]

Not rubbish at all.
How can you claim O/T on a day when you're an hour light? If anything you should make the work last as long as the hours you're booking, then you wouldn't be accused of fraud if the auditors pick up on the discrepancy.

[SpacePhoenix]

Not rubbish at all.
How can you claim O/T on a day when you're an hour light? If anything you should make the work last as long as the hours you're booking, then you wouldn't be accused of fraud if the auditors pick up on the discrepancy.

Chances are that RM will be actively monitoring all PDA actuals data, for any times when the PDA is stationary

[Woody Guthrie]

Not rubbish at all.

It is rubbish if the overtime is pre-agreed.
The agreement on PDA actuals and Clocking in machines precludes the use of both systems to remove pre-agreed overtime

At the end of the day anyone with an ounce of sense understands that if you ask someone to do a task on the pre-agreed basis that it will cost X amount of hours you can't then welch on the deal because they did it faster than you thought they would.

Not only have you broken a verbal contract more importantly you've lost the trust of the staff and insured that the next time you ask you'll get told where to go.

If anything you should make the work last as long as the hours you're booking

How very 1970s and dare I say it socialist workers party of you.

Old Joe Hill would be so proud of you Tman.

[Tman]

Advocating booking O/T while finishing early?
How 1970s Royal Mail of you.
And posties say the good old days are long gone.

At the end of the day anyone with an ounce of sense understands that if you ask someone to do a task on the pre-agreed basis that it will cost X amount of hours you can't then welch on the deal because they did it faster than you thought they would.

And most with that same sense realise that booking O/T for hours when you've already left the building is fraud in any employment. Offering someone say 4 hours to do a task is supposed to be up to 4 hours then go home, NOT do it ASAP then book 4 hours regardless.
Hence the make the work last comment.
Even if some still work to this wonderful old 1970s principle the number crunchers will stop it soon enough now there's clock machines to prove attendance times.

[postslippete]

I tend to work all the hours that I'm paid for but I don't like the idea of clocking in/out


For example, a manager verbally agrees to pay a postie an hour extra docket for delivering some Tracked parcels but the postie then clocks out early and therefore doesn't get the overtime as the company have decided to go by the clocking machine.

I don't care what Royal Mail and the CWU are saying about it now as per current agreements but in the future I fear that clocking machines, PDA actuals etc etc will all be used to track and monitor us in the future....

[Aquarius]

I tend to work all the hours that I'm paid for but I don't like the idea of clocking in/out


For example, a manager verbally agrees to pay a postie an hour extra docket for delivering some Tracked parcels but the postie then clocks out early and therefore doesn't get the overtime as the company have decided to go by the clocking machine.

I don't care what Royal Mail and the CWU are saying about it now as per current agreements but in the future I fear that clocking machines, PDA actuals etc etc will all be used to track and monitor us in the future....

Of course they will...that has always been the long term plan

[Fdeezy]

For example, a manager verbally agrees to pay a postie an hour extra docket for delivering some Tracked parcels but the postie then clocks out early and therefore doesn't get the overtime as the company have decided to go by the clocking machine.

"Don't clock out, I'll sort it for you."

There will also probably be a large number of people who 'forget' to clock in when they're in late, or out early. All systems are open for abuse by the workers and the shirkers.

[xPandabear1992x]

the sooner the better.

clock in on your start time and out at your finish time.

royal mail spunk so much money on people who are contracted...i dont know...35/40 hours for these people to then absolutely sprint the mail around every week and take home 40 hours pay for 30 hours work.

then we all wonder why the bosses won't pay overtime in the mornings...or can't get walks covered.

[2yearpostie]

For example, a manager verbally agrees to pay a postie an hour extra docket for delivering some Tracked parcels but the postie then clocks out early and therefore doesn't get the overtime as the company have decided to go by the clocking machine.

"Don't clock out, I'll sort it for you."

There will also probably be a large number of people who 'forget' to clock in when they're in late, or out early. All systems are open for abuse by the workers and the shirkers.

Everywhere else ive worked if you 'forget' to clock in and out the employer 'forgets' to pay you for that day.

[Tman]

Absolutely. Some seem to forget that clocking on has been around for maybe 200 years now, and there's no undiscovered little angles or ploys left to be exploited.
I'm surprised no-one has suggested (yet) getting their mate to clock them in or out...

[Dorset Plodder]

I agree that if someone is asked to come in early and do 2 hours Early IPS that's an Agreement with the DOM.

They should come in and do that 2 hours IPS.

What happens if there's only 45 mins work? We all know what happens .... they then prep their own duty and when that 2 hours expires they're an Hour 15 ahead with their own prep (often All prepped and just doing the Redirections)

They get out of the door an Hour 15 early ... which winds up their colleagues who are still walking back to their frame with all their packets.

Once they're out on Delivery they manage to make up say 45 minutes. They've now made up 2 hours. They take the POV that they're "Allowed" to finish 40 mins early because they haven't taken any Meal Relief. This hasn't been challenged by the DOM who allows them to do it. When they return to the DO, and book out, they've still got 40 mins on the clock (but that's their untaken MR). From their colleagues perspective they've finished 40 mins Early. They then walk into the DOMs office and book 2 hours OT!
And people wonder why there's a Bad atmosphere in some DOs.

[Krypteia]

I agree that if someone is asked to come in early and do 2 hours Early IPS that's an Agreement with the DOM.

They should come in and do that 2 hours IPS.

What happens if there's only 45 mins work? We all know what happens .... they then prep their own duty and when that 2 hours expires they're an Hour 15 ahead with their own prep (often All prepped and just doing the Redirections)

They get out of the door an Hour 15 early ... which winds up their colleagues who are still walking back to their frame with all their packets.

Once they're out on Delivery they manage to make up say 45 minutes. They've now made up 2 hours. They take the POV that they're "Allowed" to finish early 40 mins early because they haven't taken any Meal Relief. This hasn't been challenged by the DOM who allows them to do it. When they return to the DO, and book out, they've still got 40 mins on the clock (but that's their untaken MR). From their colleagues perspective they've finished 40 mins Early. They then walk into the DOMs office and book 2 hours OT!
And people wonder why there's a Bad atmosphere in some DOs.

If they're asked to come in 2 hours early to prep then it's up to their manager to make sure there's enough work to fill those 2 hours even if it includes prepping other duties but not their own. After that if they go home early then that will reduce the amount of overtime they are paid which a clocking in/out machine will show that they went home early. There should be no more of this "agreed O/T hours" by managers, all it ever does is cause a bad atmosphere in the office, favouritism and shows, not that we don't all know this, how poor and lazy the level of management is within DO's.

People should only be paid for the hours they work not fanciful numbers plucked from the air in "deals" that undermine the whole concept of, and I'll quote the company it's self, "all paid hours to be worked" especially when those that find it difficult to finish on time because of oversized duties get pressurized to work beyond their time or are too stressed to go and say they are cutting off.

[Woody Guthrie]

People should only be paid for the hours they work....

It's a nice idea in theory but in a business that's pretty unique in that it heavily relies on overtime but doesn't pay a premium for overtime it's a bit naive to say the least.

That's kind of what people are missing.

If there isn't an appetite for overtime because you're simply going to claw it back if people finish early you have a major problem on your hands as a manager.

[mjd24]

Advocating booking O/T while finishing early?
How 1970s Royal Mail of you.
And posties say the good old days are long gone.

At the end of the day anyone with an ounce of sense understands that if you ask someone to do a task on the pre-agreed basis that it will cost X amount of hours you can't then welch on the deal because they did it faster than you thought they would.

And most with that same sense realise that booking O/T for hours when you've already left the building is fraud in any employment. Offering someone say 4 hours to do a task is supposed to be up to 4 hours then go home, NOT do it ASAP then book 4 hours regardless.
Hence the make the work last comment.
Even if some still work to this wonderful old 1970s principle the number crunchers will stop it soon enough now there's clock machines to prove attendance times.

But you could deliver more mail in 3 hours than in 4 hours if you wanted. Are you saying you’d deserve more pay for the less mail delivered in 4 hours than the more mail delivered in 3 hours?

[Dorset Plodder]

People should only be paid for the hours they work....

It's a nice idea in theory but in a business that's pretty unique in that it heavily relies on overtime but doesn't pay a premium for overtime it's a bit naive to say the least.

I'm sure if Royal Mail was forced to pay/use a more "Recognised" Overtime System (Time and a Quarter, Time and a Third, Time and a Half or Double Time) then we'd suddenly start to see a lot more Posties being employed on FT contarcts.

I know the reason why the CWU supported the introduction of the extra low OT rate for over the first ten hours (To discourage excessive OT) but in the time I've been in the Business it certainly doesn't seem to have had much effect.

Perhaps the CWUs next Great Campaign should be a more rewarding OT sytem of payments?