revision

[rkounnas]

Was looking at the sheet for one of the walks in my office. Is a 4 and a half hour duty on an average day, 5-6 on heavier days. They have added another 90 minutes minimum, and timed the duty out at 4 hours 38 minutes. Even added back-to-back loop on the busiest street in the area, when it was perfectly fine the right way round. Honestly comical

[Bob Cooney]

since we had our revision in our office total chaos the planner who did our revision totally messed up the routes you go back on yourself constantly i know work your time is what you will say but it does not give you any heart to think he got well paid to f it up and probably a pat on the back i think this is the lowest morale i have seen in the office i attend since i started working for royal fail glad i only have a couple of years to go anyhow that,s off me chest now enjoy the rest of week end ta ta

Its sounds as though they just ran the route through Georoute, the same as last time then.

Georoute is a reasonable tool but it can only provide quantitative data '+/- 1 hour'. Also the quantitative data of Georoute is hampered by its own programming which does what it thinks is the sensible thing rather than the actual thing. PDA actuals show a reasonable capture of the actual thing but is still only an avatar of reality due to qualitative variables which should, but never do, play a central role in providing a true (ish) resourcing picture.

To put it on perspective, imagine you're planning a route through town and you know that its 15 miles so therefore at 30 MPH you can get through town in 15 minutes. Georoute gets through town in 15 minutes.

Georoute doesn't have to wait at the 10 traffic lights because in Georoute world they were not considered as a qualitative variable and neither was Rush Hour or other peoples accidents blocking the traffic etc.

Thus you plan your trips at 30 MPH and are usually disappointed and this is basically every RM revision.

No surveyor would submit a Georoute analysis without precautionary variables included.

The only thing to do with dishonest 'journey planning' is to roll with it and allow the Micromanagement to take its course, keep your nose clean and PDA actuals are your friend.

Can slow/overide the road speeds in Route Manager to take account of traffic lights and this flows through to Geo Route

[Ad_bee]

since we had our revision in our office total chaos the planner who did our revision totally messed up the routes you go back on yourself constantly i know work your time is what you will say but it does not give you any heart to think he got well paid to f it up and probably a pat on the back i think this is the lowest morale i have seen in the office i attend since i started working for royal fail glad i only have a couple of years to go anyhow that,s off me chest now enjoy the rest of week end ta ta

Its sounds as though they just ran the route through Georoute, the same as last time then.

Georoute is a reasonable tool but it can only provide quantitative data '+/- 1 hour'. Also the quantitative data of Georoute is hampered by its own programming which does what it thinks is the sensible thing rather than the actual thing. PDA actuals show a reasonable capture of the actual thing but is still only an avatar of reality due to qualitative variables which should, but never do, play a central role in providing a true (ish) resourcing picture.

To put it on perspective, imagine you're planning a route through town and you know that its 15 miles so therefore at 30 MPH you can get through town in 15 minutes. Georoute gets through town in 15 minutes.

Georoute doesn't have to wait at the 10 traffic lights because in Georoute world they were not considered as a qualitative variable and neither was Rush Hour or other peoples accidents blocking the traffic etc.

Thus you plan your trips at 30 MPH and are usually disappointed and this is basically every RM revision.

No surveyor would submit a Georoute analysis without precautionary variables included.

The only thing to do with dishonest 'journey planning' is to roll with it and allow the Micromanagement to take its course, keep your nose clean and PDA actuals are your friend.

Can slow/overide the road speeds in Route Manager to take account of traffic lights and this flows through to Geo Route

Indeed it can, its a very good tool.

However, there's a massive difference between 'can do' and 'does'.

The last revision using Georoute was reasonably accurate but only to the parameter of '+/- 1 hour' according to my own delivery stats.

I came to suspect that that '+/- 1 hour' was due to quantative analysis ignoring qualitative variables.

Not only that, but after getting a reasonable result (if reason were to be applied to it....and it wasn't) RM invented PermaLapsing, which bust the whole thing wide-open again.

They are not using Georoute as the tool it was designed to be but as the tool they want it to be and they tweak away at both it and the companion stats (call rates, mail volumes, parcel volumes etc) to achieve a result that reflects what they 'wish for' rather than what 'is'.

They don't have to do that. The people running the show are not fools and the result they get is the result they play for.

If they wanted accuracy they could get a reasonable accuracy within a parameter but what they actually want is....


An exponential-growth-bonanza-potential spreadsheet to show to financiers and investors.

[Bob Cooney]

since we had our revision in our office total chaos the planner who did our revision totally messed up the routes you go back on yourself constantly i know work your time is what you will say but it does not give you any heart to think he got well paid to f it up and probably a pat on the back i think this is the lowest morale i have seen in the office i attend since i started working for royal fail glad i only have a couple of years to go anyhow that,s off me chest now enjoy the rest of week end ta ta

Its sounds as though they just ran the route through Georoute, the same as last time then.

Georoute is a reasonable tool but it can only provide quantitative data '+/- 1 hour'. Also the quantitative data of Georoute is hampered by its own programming which does what it thinks is the sensible thing rather than the actual thing. PDA actuals show a reasonable capture of the actual thing but is still only an avatar of reality due to qualitative variables which should, but never do, play a central role in providing a true (ish) resourcing picture.

To put it on perspective, imagine you're planning a route through town and you know that its 15 miles so therefore at 30 MPH you can get through town in 15 minutes. Georoute gets through town in 15 minutes.

Georoute doesn't have to wait at the 10 traffic lights because in Georoute world they were not considered as a qualitative variable and neither was Rush Hour or other peoples accidents blocking the traffic etc.

Thus you plan your trips at 30 MPH and are usually disappointed and this is basically every RM revision.

No surveyor would submit a Georoute analysis without precautionary variables included.

The only thing to do with dishonest 'journey planning' is to roll with it and allow the Micromanagement to take its course, keep your nose clean and PDA actuals are your friend.

Can slow/overide the road speeds in Route Manager to take account of traffic lights and this flows through to Geo Route

Indeed it can, its a very good tool.

However, there's a massive difference between 'can do' and 'does'.

The last revision using Georoute was reasonably accurate but only to the parameter of '+/- 1 hour' according to my own delivery stats.

I came to suspect that that '+/- 1 hour' was due to quantative analysis ignoring qualitative variables.

Not only that, but after getting a reasonable result (if reason were to be applied to it....and it wasn't) RM invented PermaLapsing, which bust the whole thing wide-open again.

They are not using Georoute as the tool it was designed to be but as the tool they want it to be and they tweak away at both it and the companion stats (call rates, mail volumes, parcel volumes etc) to achieve a result that reflects what they 'wish for' rather than what 'is'.

They don't have to do that. The people running the show are not fools and the result they get is the result they play for.

If they wanted accuracy they could get a reasonable accuracy within a parameter but what they actually want is....


An exponential-growth-bonanza-potential spreadsheet to show to financiers and investors.

Agree but thats why we pay "5 course Mark Baulch " to oversee and to produce proper guidelines that at least get the base delivery accurate ( they have sold us out on the WIPWH and the letter decline forecast ).Baulch hasnt done his job and shoukd be removed.

For instance on Route Manager there is stepped access for stairs that occur up to delivery points which can be as much as 20 steps and also terrain - unless spotted or raised by the rep these delivery points are set as on the flat with no stairs which will rip hours out.

They tried it in my office and now they have to go back and add all these tens 1000s of stepped access meanwhile other offices in my area have not spotted this and signed it off.

[Cucumber]

Our revision has been forced in despite not having enough staff and we are still having failed duties every day.
We might catch up on a Tuesday.
Come back from day off and it's pretty certain your duty will have either fully failed or still have 2-3 rows left in.
No sign of any vacancies being filled.

[worktotime]

its looking like our structural revision has been done on the back of a stamp and will go tits up , we have had no briefings or any input on duty patterns , working weeks , no parcel drivers etc , but yet the line manager has just mixed and matched dutys and added another 1 or 2 loops onto them and put the maps up , its now looking like they arent even going to be using georoute as theres talk of a repick starting in a few weeks , the office rep is piss poor and hasnt informed the members of whats what and what he has signed off and allowed the manager to do what he wants and going against the agreement , the area rep is aware of this and doesnt seem interested as it doesnt affect him and his full release , so its looking like a massive failure for xmas so finish time and home . surely at a national level pullinger and his cronies should be stopping these revisions and not allowing members to be treated like s**t and b&h has gone through the roof and the workload even worse than they was .

[Chelseablue]

Exactly same as both our offices. We told them the dutys were a mess and miles too big and guess what ,,, dutys an hour /2 hrs too big . Didnt want to listen to the staff whove did the dutys for years , incredible ! Union were the same , just let them force it in regardless.

[worktotime]

Exactly same as both our offices. We told them the dutys were a mess and miles too big and guess what ,,, dutys an hour /2 hrs too big . Didnt want to listen to the staff whove did the dutys for years , incredible ! Union were the same , just let them force it in regardless.

so its finish time and home and bollocks to it

[Manboat]

Same at ours too, the duties that can be done somewhere near their time are few and far between, most of them you can only get half the mail done and all the tracked and some of the parcels and then take the other half out the next day and so on, if it’s not sorted soon then it’s gonna be an even bigger shambles in peak, it will be unbearable and can see people going off stressed out to death with it all. I’m sure delivery to specification has started too but doesn’t seem like it as still been totally impossible to getting anywhere near completing any rounds I’ve been shoved on since the revision.

[ANDREW CROCOMBE]

Seeing as management are unable/ unwilling to participate - any way that I can get hold of the geo route planner myself, to prove how long these stupid new duties actually take ? Guessing 5-6 hours to clear the 1550 houses, not with my legs and back I'm afraid