mail centres

[SpacePhoenix]

I work Tracked in a Mail Centre and we are told we cannot send out Grey Sleeves or MK4(the PSM clear plastic fronted sleeves) to DO's so that only leaves Red Sleeves and Cardboards. Now as at least 50% of the Cardboard Sleeves come in without a base that limits exactly what we can send Tracked in to DO's. Not quite sure why MK4 cannot be used as they at least have a solid base in and are built for coping with heavier items so don't collapse like Cardboards when anything heavier gets thrown into them

I've not seen any Kk4s recently so maybe they've been got rid of.

Ultimately it's down to what a MC has available to use. One way or another the packets have to go to the DOs as we don't have the room to store them

Lack of storage or equipment in an MC trumps H&S of Posties in a DO.

Well, that could lead to massive claims in the future.

Tell your manager you're not doing them on H&S grounds then.
Cause if you do them and sustain an injury it will be your fault. As you are responsible for your own H&S.

And you are missing the point BASELSS CARDBOARD SHROUDS are a health and safety hazard to actual Human beings. We have to lift heavy objects out of them in an unsafe way, or pull the sides out when they are weighed down by the parcels. The same with grey shrouds on the lifting.

You say we have no choice we have to accept the situation - that is making me angry. It makes me angry when getting the post out is more important than the H&S of my colleagues.

Also carboard shrouds have been banned, why because of H&S concerns.

As to telling the manager, we do. Locally I kick up a stink, and because I provided photos to prove it, we rarely get them because the MC manager got involved. Apparently, it wasn't coming from the managers, it was MC posties not raising the issue with their managers and acting on their own initiative.

If you don't have enough red shrouds, raise a stink, please don't endanger DO Posties.

AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME:

IF ANY ITEM IN A CARDBOARD SLEEVE WEIGHS MORE THAN 2.5kg THEN THE BASES AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE USED

IF THE SLEEVE IS BEING USED WITH A PSM THEN THE BASES AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE USED

GREY SLEEVES WILL BE REPLACING RED SLEEVES AS THE RED SLEEVES CAUSE ISSUES WITH THE FEED ON PSMs

IF WE ONLY HAVE CARDBOARD SLEEVES AVAILABLE THEN THAT's WHAT WE HAVE TO USE

WE DON'T HAVE THE ROOM TO BE ABLE TO HOLD BACK LOTS OF MAIL.

IT'S NOT RECKET SCIENCE. WE CANNOT USE WHAT WE DON'T HAVE

WHEN WILL IT SINK IN FOR DELIVERIES??????????

[TrueBlueTerrier]

WHEN WILL IT SINK IN HEALTH AND SAFETY CANNOT BE COMPROMISED JUST TO GET THE MAIL OUT.

I really cannot understand why you think it's acceptable to compromise MY health and safety. If you don't have the right equipment let management sort it out. Don't put my back at risk just because you think you have no choice.

Also, anything over 2.5 kg should not be put in a cardboard shroud - it should be put in a plain york.

Honestly, cardboard shrouds have been BANNED outside mail centres - so why should a local MC override RM policy and in doing so put our H&S at risk.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

In simple terms, you are risking the H&S of posties, and so far nothing you have said justifies why.

[tabact]

At our MC we use cardboard sleeves, if nothing else available, on the PSM and the bases must be fitted if going to DOs. We put perstorps underneath the base rather than use the cardboard cross-member which tends to collape under weight.This does cause a problem further down the line when cardboard sleeves come back and get tipped on the PSM as people rarely push in the tabs to keep the base in place.

Heavy packets should have been screened out by the people loading the belts so weight shouldn't be an issue. The Mk4 was designed with a PSM in mind but we are not allowed to send these to DOs and are only used for outwards.

[SpacePhoenix]

WHEN WILL IT SINK IN HEALTH AND SAFETY CANNOT BE COMPROMISED JUST TO GET THE MAIL OUT.

I really cannot understand why you think it's acceptable to compromise MY health and safety. If you don't have the right equipment let management sort it out. Don't put my back at risk just because you think you have no choice.

Also, anything over 2.5 kg should not be put in a cardboard shroud - it should be put in a plain york.

Honestly, cardboard shrouds have been BANNED outside mail centres - so why should a local MC override RM policy and in doing so put our H&S at risk.

You can dream on if you think that we'll be weighing packets, we don't have the time. Both plain yorks and sleeves have been having a right mix or normal and Tracked, large and small. We've raised it so many times that frankly no one gives a s**t anymore.

The mail will be sent out in whatever we've got available, it's just tough s**t. We don't have the room to be holding back mail, On some shift literally every area of the floor is in use for sorting.

Heavy packets should have been screened out by the people loading the belts so weight shouldn't be an issue. The Mk4 was designed with a PSM in mind but we are not allowed to send these to DOs and are only used for outwards.

We don't go by weight at all, purely by size of the item

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The mail will be sent out in whatever we've got available, it's just tough s**t.

That's what's pissing me off. Screw the posties it's not a good luck for a Union that's meant to be keen on H&S.

It's a pain, but me constantly reporting it to my managers, and to the local H&S rep, means we no longer get cardboard sleeves never mind baseless ones, nor do we broken shrouds. Unless you, and the DOs you feed start raising s**t, it will keep going on, and eventually, someone will be injured badly, then the HSE will be asking EVERYONE why they didn't raise the issue. Especially as they have been banned outside mail centres.

If you accept the consequences then continue as you are. If you want to make changes then start making noises, its a PITA but eventually something does get done.

As some MCers are happy to say to us, see your managers let them make the decision to send broken, baseless or cardboard sleeves. Please don't leave it to us to fight on our own.

[SpacePhoenix]

The mail will be sent out in whatever we've got available, it's just tough s**t.

That's what's pissing me off. Screw the posties it's not a good luck for a Union that's meant to be keen on H&S.

It's a pain, but me constantly reporting it to my managers, and to the local H&S rep, means we no longer get cardboard sleeves never mind baseless ones, nor do we broken shrouds. Unless you, and the DOs you feed start raising s**t, it will keep going on, and eventually, someone will be injured badly, then the HSE will be asking EVERYONE why they didn't raise the issue. Especially as they have been banned outside mail centres.

If you accept the consequences then continue as you are. If you want to make changes then start making noises, its a PITA but eventually something does get done.

As some MCers are happy to say to us, see your managers let them make the decision to send broken, baseless or cardboard sleeves. Please don't leave it to us to fight on our own.

It's been flagged up so many times.

The way that large and small normal are often mixed in with small and large Tracked in sleeves has also been raised at a national level I believe and sweet fa has been done about it. This has been raised by managers.

[denhamhoop]

I work Tracked in a Mail Centre and we are told we cannot send out Grey Sleeves or MK4(the PSM clear plastic fronted sleeves) to DO's so that only leaves Red Sleeves and Cardboards. Now as at least 50% of the Cardboard Sleeves come in without a base that limits exactly what we can send Tracked in to DO's. Not quite sure why MK4 cannot be used as they at least have a solid base in and are built for coping with heavier items so don't collapse like Cardboards when anything heavier gets thrown into them

I've not seen any Kk4s recently so maybe they've been got rid of.

Ultimately it's down to what a MC has available to use. One way or another the packets have to go to the DOs as we don't have the room to store them

Lack of storage or equipment in an MC trumps H&S of Posties in a DO.

Well, that could lead to massive claims in the future.

Does the H & S not apply to Posties in a MC then as I am fairly certain the 300 items a DO has to sort from aforementioned cardboard sleeves is a few less items than the 4000+ I get to sort every shift

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It DOES apply to MC posties. I have checked and from various LTBs from 2009to 2020 (nearly annually)

its says

The position is clearly outlined in LTB 918/09 dated 20 October 2009. As background, I would draw your attention to Letter to Branches (LTB) 735/06 dated 3 November 2006 (copy attached – Appendix 3). You will see from the correspondence with Royal Mail HQ, following further discussions and correspondence with the Royal Mail Safety Steering Group Chair and Territorial Director Tony Fox, he responded that the agreed Policy to remove Cardboard Sleeves remains in place and Royal Mail will stick to its commitment that cardboard sleeved York Containers will no longer be routinely used for the distribution of packets within the mail centre network. The instructions to AGMs and MCMs stated clearly - No Post Code Areas are "exempt" from the removal of Cardboard Sleeves irrespective of what may be said by some local managers. Previous LTBs are LTB 569/05 dated 21 November 2005 and LTB 601/05 dated 5 December 2005.

The grounds for withdrawal of Cardboard Sleeves were set out by Central Postal Control (CPC) in the instructions sent to Area General Managers (AGMs) and Mail Centre Managers (MCMs) as follows:

• The use of Cardboard Sleeves for packet traffic was having an adverse affect on the network,
• Safe Systems of Work were not being followed,
• Increased York Container demands,
• Reduced vehicle utilisation and
• large amounts of unwanted, waste cardboard requiring repatriation.

Cardboard sleeves in Yorks for loose loaded packet and other traffic instead of the ALP (Auto Level Packet) sleeves leads to poor lifting technique encouraged by using these sleeves combined with increased requirements of bending lifting, reaching and twisting, greatly increases the risk of musculoskeletal injuries and disorders (MSDs) when sorting loose items from the bottom of cardboard sleeves. From a productivity point of view it additionally slows down the sorting process. These findings were reflected in an ergonomic study of cardboard sleeve use carried out at Swindon Mail Centre.

• Clear instructions have been issued to MCMs not to purchase further Cardboard Sleeves for routine use.

 Opsflash - CPC (2010)
No 136 entitled CPC (2010) 136

Subject: Use of cardboard sleeves in Yorks - Urgent action required
1. This Opsflash is for the immediate attention of and action where appropriate by, all RM UK Operations and RM shift managers.

It must be handed to the senior manager on duty who will be responsible for ensuring the information is cascaded immediately to all managers on duty as necessary, within processing, distribution and delivery functions.
Cardboard York Inserts are not to be used for Outward Despatches into the network by Mail Centres.
Packets should be despatched bagged or using ALP Sleeves.
Mail Centres having insufficient ALP sleeves should put contingency plans in place to bag Packets.

So NO you shouldn't be sorting for cardboard sleeves.

[SpacePhoenix]

Cardboard York Inserts are not to be used for Outward Despatches into the network by Mail Centres.
Packets should be despatched bagged or using ALP Sleeves.
Mail Centres having insufficient ALP sleeves should put contingency plans in place to bag Packets.

The use of bags is not an option.

1) We don't have the frames for it to happen
2) We don't have the space available to make it work (primary sorting is now based around powered conveyors)
3) Sorting into bags is way too slow
4) Bags are no good if a MC has a PSM

[Blaine]

We still get cardboard yorks at our DO, with 4 upside down trays at the bottom

[SpacePhoenix]

If we were to be strict with the use of broken red sleeves then you'd actually end up with even more cardboard sleeves being used. Probably over half of the red sleeves have something broken (often the clips for closing them)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Cardboard York Inserts are not to be used for Outward Despatches into the network by Mail Centres.
Packets should be despatched bagged or using ALP Sleeves.
Mail Centres having insufficient ALP sleeves should put contingency plans in place to bag Packets.

The use of bags is not an option.

1) We don't have the frames for it to happen
2) We don't have the space available to make it work (primary sorting is now based around powered conveyors)
3) Sorting into bags is way too slow
4) Bags are no good if a MC has a PSM

As long as you understand you are going against Royal Mail policy and H&S instructions. I will keep bringing it up though, as though it appears a minor issue for MCs, it's a HUGE issue for DOs. Presentation is the biggest gripe for DOs from MCs.

[SpacePhoenix]

As long as you understand you are going against Royal Mail policy and H&S instructions. I will keep bringing it up though, as though it appears a minor issue for MCs, it's a HUGE issue for DOs. Presentation is the biggest gripe for DOs from MCs.

Presentation is just as bad from outward MCs to inward MCs. It's been flagged up so many times that it's reached the point where no one gives a s**t anymore.

If RM were serious about MCs not using cardboard sleeves then they'd release a shitload of new red sleeves into the network (probably more likely though to be grey sleeves)