Average Pay Agreement: Reps Briefing

[Woody Guthrie]

There's a lot of answers to a lot of questions in there..

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[JPLC]

Where is says six weeks when working out the back pay does the six weeks include all the bank holidays or do we just get the holiday we have to book ie 4 weeks 2 days as I’ve only been a Postman for 3 years.

[Grumpyoldmailman]

What happens with members who have got an uplift in contracted hours at some point in the last 2 years?

[onejontwo]

Does this apply to ex Royal Mail employees who have left recently?

[Grumpyoldmailman]

Does this apply to ex Royal Mail employees who have left recently?

No you have to be an employee on the date the agreement is signed off.

[yellowbelly]

What happens with members who have got an uplift in contracted hours at some point in the last 2 years?

If you're still working 8 hours OT each month to qualify the 'maths' of the process should work it out - if you've had an uplift
then the OT you've been claiming would reduce but you'd still qualify (having worked 8 hours OT each month)
but your back pay holiday average OT would be brought down.

I suppose it might be a problem if say three months into a qualifying period after working 8 hours OT each month
and then you get an uplift and don't get 8 hours OT in the remaining three to qualify. You've dipped out on the back pay
in that case I would imagine, but you've got a future holiday pay increase due to your contract increase - it might
not compensate fully but that's the deal.

[Fiesta1996]

Says just 'overtime hours' yet the previous EAT decisions say everything, including commission, should be considered, bar a few exceptions.

So for me, given I was largely on the night shift, I presume i'd only get day shift holiday pay, as night shift allowance doesnt appear on the payslip as 'overtime' (despite night shift allowance presumably given to me in my contractual holiday - at least when I did take time off, my monthly pay packet didnt change...in effect I was still getting night shift rates)

Seems strange, holiday pay on voluntary but regular overtime, if you go to the ACAS website, looks to be part of statutory employment law, & yet all that seems to be being offered is a minimum below what has already been established at EAT in establishing that law?

If a business broke other statutory laws, as in didnt pay minimum wage, that business would find itself in deep trouble very quickly.

[Blaine]

What happens if you take all your annual leave in a single month, and therefore won't reach the 8 hours for that particular month?

[Dexydog]

I think the system evens out your leave over the reference period, so it won't matter.
It will give you an average of 6 months pay over the 2 weeks (or 3 weeks if you get 6 a year) it assumes you have taken.
Over the year it will average out- I might be wrong here but that's how it reads.

[spen]

So what happens if you regularly do approx 20 hours ot a week,,, but due to circumstances take a full month off on sick,,, do you lose out on back pay for that 6 month period?

[tmac]

What happens if you take 3 weeks leave in a month , you return still feel in holiday mode and don't do any overtime do you then not qualify for holiday pay .

[Woody Guthrie]

Since most of the questions relate to the same thing in order to qualify as regular overtime and receive the money you will have to work at least 8 hours of overtime every month in the six month reference period.

Remember this agreement and the relevant legal position relates to the performing of regular overtime and regular overtime has to have a definition, at 8hrs a month the bar is set pretty low.

[ted_e_bear]

Since most of the questions relate to the same thing in order to qualify as regular overtime and receive the money you will have to work at least 8 hours of overtime every month in the six month reference period.

Remember this agreement and the relevant legal position relates to the performing of regular overtime and regular overtime has to have a definition, at 8hrs a month the bar is set pretty low.

Yes the bar is pretty low and I think it's great that this agreement has been reached, however, myself and others are on the new 35hr "full time" contracts and the way I see it is when we go from 38 to 37hrs full time which is imminent, if there is no other overtime performed then we'll lose out on holiday pay compared to an existing proper 37hr full timer as due to taking leave it'll be impossible to do 8hrs every month in a 6 month period.

Why oh why couldn't they just keep it simple and have a full timer on the going rate, be it 38,37 whatever, not 35 that it might be at some time in the future !

[vmaxv4]

So what happens if you regularly do approx 20 hours ot a week,,, but due to circumstances take a full month off on sick,,, do you lose out on back pay for that 6 month period?

Since most of the questions relate to the same thing in order to qualify as regular overtime and receive the money you will have to work at least 8 hours of overtime every month in the six month reference period.

Remember this agreement and the relevant legal position relates to the performing of regular overtime and regular overtime has to have a definition, at 8hrs a month the bar is set pretty low.

The definition of regular overtime could have still be legal if the qualifying 6 month period were set as an average of 8hrs per week multiplied by weeks accrued.
And therefore missing a week by an hour wouldn’t go against anyone.
S/A holiday which has been running for years is on your weekly average.
Don’t get me wrong! Good agreement but should be more simple to achieve.

[Blaine]

Is there any reason why we didn't go for a simpler method? When on annual leave, award average of previous 52 weeks earnings? Wouldn't this have been easier on Payroll systems and restored trust in senior management, because they get their full annual leave pay for all 5.6 weeks and we are capped at 4 weeks.

This guidance explains how to calculate statutory holiday pay for workers without fixed hours or fixed rates of pay. It is for use by workers or employers.

Holiday pay is based on the principle that a worker should not suffer financially for taking holiday.

In simple terms, almost all workers, except those who are genuinely self-employed, are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks’ paid holiday per year. This entitlement is derived from the Working Time Regulations 1998.[footnote 1]

The amount of pay that a worker receives for the holiday they take depends on the number of hours they work and how they are paid for those hours. The principle is that pay received by a worker while they are on holiday should reflect what they would have earned if they had been at work and working.

A worker continues to accrue holiday entitlement while they are on sick leave, maternity leave, parental leave, adoption leave and other types of statutory leave. A worker may request holiday at the same time they are on sick leave.

The majority of the UK’s workforce are full-time workers on fixed hours and fixed pay. For these workers, typically on a fixed monthly salary, if they take a week’s holiday, they will receive the same pay at the end of the month as they normally receive.

The situation becomes more complicated when a worker does not work fixed or regular hours and so does not receive the same amount of pay each week, month or other pay period. In these circumstances an employer should normally look back at a worker’s previous 52 paid weeks (known as the holiday pay reference period) to calculate what that worker should be paid for a week’s leave.