Agreement reached on Average Holiday Pay, Resourcing and the reintroduction of Postal Cadets.

[Dexydog]

So does this agreement stop the employment tribunal? i.e CWU brought the case on behalf of employees, so
now that CWU have made an agreement with the employer can the tribunal say - OK you've sorted it, everybody
happy? Crack on then, case closed?

#
Better bloody not be the case.

[jam05]

Does anyone know how this will affect colleagues who have just left the business? Will they get the back pay do you think?

[broughts]

What about colleagues who have been shielding or off sick for a long period?

[yellowbelly]

Does anyone know how this will affect colleagues who have just left the business? Will they get the back pay do you think?

Probably in the same way that recent retirees didn't get last years April pay rise
because they retired before the agreement was signed.........

[Martin Walsh]

Clear a few points up , the aim was always to get a collective agreement and providing this agreement is voted through by way or a Branch consultative ballot than clear the CWU will not be supporting the employment tribunal cases. Those who have claims may still continue with them but there will extra conditions for any individual who makes a claim against Royal Mail based on Royal Mail won’t pay the individual twice one though the agreement and through the courts.

If an individual has been off sick for a period and have not worked the qualified for criteria or 8 hours or above per month for 6 months as each reference period than they will qualify. Remember if your off sick you don’t get overtime now.

For any individual who has left business providing they met the criteria for the 6 month reference period they will still qualify for a payment even if they have left the business but only if they hit the hit the regularity threshold for the qualifying period.

[Route1]

Back pay will be limited to two years.

After that payment will be made in two lump sums per year just like the SA agreement.

Full-time staff will be included but only covering the 4 weeks covered by the EU directive.

Part-time staff will receive any payments up to full-time equivalent hours covering their entire holiday entitlement and then anything over full-time hours covering the 4 week entitlement ensuring parity with full-time members.

I've not listened to the podcast, only read whats on here. My understanding from what ive read is...

(1) Holiday will only cover the first 4 weeks of holiday.
Thats what I was offered two years ago when I put my claim in with ACAS because the EU rule only covered 4 weeks.

(2) If it only covers upto f/t hours, then a f/t wont get any extra when on holiday as they already get f/t.
A p/t will get the average upto f/t hours. Currently 38 hours for a f/t postie.

If this is the case, i'll need to pursue my case through acas / tribunal because since covid my average hours have been 55 week. RM will pay me upto 38 hours through the agreement but i'll need to pursue the extra 68 hour (17 hr per week * 4 weeks).

This is my understanding.

Its a half victory as a p/t doing regular o/t will get upto f/t holiday pay. Its not great for those regularly doing o/t over f/t hours.

[P13]

Back pay will be limited to two years.

After that payment will be made in two lump sums per year just like the SA agreement.

Full-time staff will be included but only covering the 4 weeks covered by the EU directive.

Part-time staff will receive any payments up to full-time equivalent hours covering their entire holiday entitlement and then anything over full-time hours covering the 4 week entitlement ensuring parity with full-time members.

I've not listened to the podcast, only read whats on here. My understanding from what ive read is...

(1) Holiday will only cover the first 4 weeks of holiday.
Thats what I was offered two years ago when I put my claim in with ACAS because the EU rule only covered 4 weeks.

(2) If it only covers upto f/t hours, then a f/t wont get any extra when on holiday as they already get f/t.
A p/t will get the average upto f/t hours. Currently 38 hours for a f/t postie.

If this is the case, i'll need to pursue my case through acas / tribunal because since covid my average hours have been 55 week. RM will pay me upto 38 hours through the agreement but i'll need to pursue the extra 68 hour (17 hr per week * 4 weeks).

This is my understanding.

Its a half victory as a p/t doing regular o/t will get upto f/t holiday pay. Its not great for those regularly doing o/t over f/t hours.

Part-time staff will receive any payments up to full-time equivalent hours covering their entire holiday entitlement and then anything over full-time hours covering the 4 week entitlement ensuring parity with full-time members.

[Grumpyoldmailman]

So I take it the new 35 hour full time contracts will be classed as part time for these purposes, also we have a couple of people who have been made up from part time to full time in our office over the last few weeks. How are they going to pick the bones of what they are owed?

[Alantidey]

I’m in this too. I submitted a claim to ACAS 3 years ago when I was on a 25 hour contract and doing an average of 13 hours overtime a week. I was made up to full time August 2019 and overtime average obviously dropped off but was still about 6 hours a week due to being in a busier office.

It’s going to be a nightmare for the cases to be decided about who gets what!

[Woody Guthrie]

Those who have claims may still continue with them but there will extra conditions for any individual who makes a claim against Royal Mail based on Royal Mail won’t pay the individual twice one though the agreement and through the courts.

Okay so there are really only two options there.

Either those continuing on their own with their ET claims will have to refuse the RM payment and take a punt with the tribunal system or they'll have to agree to refund any RM payment (and possible costs) if they are successful at tribunal.I

Which is it?

Obviously the latter is a better option but neither is particularly sensible, I hope the members are made fully aware of the dangers and potential costs of continuing with their claims and the fact that this collective agreement will obviously undermine individual claims.

[gerardy]

Martin,

We still have not got a definitive answer as to whether those of us in Northern Ireland are to be tied into this 2 year collective back pay debacle / agreement.

I will wait for an answer before commenting further

[Route1]

Part-time staff will receive any payments up to full-time equivalent hours covering their entire holiday entitlement and then anything over full-time hours covering the 4 week entitlement ensuring parity with full-time members.

Ignore my previous comment as I think I may have misunderstood. If the above is true, its probably the best we could expect.

My new understanding is
(1a) f/t will get average holiday pay for the first 4 weeks of annual leave.
(1b) Any additional holiday will be paid at f/t hours (currently 38h for a postie).

(2a) p/t will get average holiday pay for the first 4 weeks of annual leave.
(2b) p/t will also get upto f/t hours for the rest of their holiday entitlement (providing they have done the relevant o/t)

I finally listened to the podcast. Details will emerge over the next few days / weeks or even months.

Im no expert in law but if the above is true then imo there is no point taking it to tribunal as we wont get anything better. Point (2b) is definitely a big win as this is where p/t would normally get shafted.

I accept this is a big win for the cwu but a big thanks to the other union / individuals that took their cases to court before the cwu acted.

[ted_e_bear]

@route1 yes thats summed it up really well, I agree point 2b was the shafting point that concerned the most posties.

[hans solo]

so what about historical claims in tribunal this is what this agreement is about
i put in a claim to the industrial tribunal for all the years i worked overtime previously also as a pt worker for 8 years
so they dont count now
discrimination right there

[HTPostman]

It’s going to be very complex. For those asking, when I put my own claim in back in 2019 (which was paid out) I was told by the union that it could only be backdated 2 years.

Personally I’d accept being paid what I’m owed without any need for a long complicated claim and then going forward just pay me correctly.

And then the union can move onto most PT employees second biggest gripe - days off. Here people on fixed duties are given 1 in 4 saturdays off, that’s 12 a year (plus 4 Saturdays off as annual leave). I’ve had 1 Saturday off in 3 years whereas the person working next to me has had 36. Instead 99% of the time I’m given Tuesday off. Raised it with management, raised it with the union, raised it with the area rep but it always comes back to ‘businesses requirements’ etc.