LTB 192/21 - Pathway to Change Agreement - Improving Efficiency / Productivity - Productivity Joint Working Group (PJWG) Recommendations

[Gallypaddy]

3. We will be taking unmeasured work hours out of the calculation for WIPWH which will see an improvement in productivity. Unmeasured work hours include meal relief , training , CSP hours , locker room hours , timed delivery , union rep release , WTL , training and a number of other sub code headings.


To help to enable smooth revisions which are being planned now surely would be more beneficial for unmeasured hours to be removed now?
What date is likely for unmeasured hours to be removed?

[Martin Walsh]

It is interesting that a number of people are critical of the productivity measure but these same people have been over the years critical of the following

1 Royal Mail wanting to resource to budget.
2. Royal Mail comparing your office performance to another and wanting you to reach the same performance.
3. That absorption was just because of budget.
4. That there was nothing to measure the growing time needed to perform outdoor delivery.
5. That offices were different in terms of workload , distances and variances.
6. That there was a range of performance within the UK.


1. We have now got a productivity measure which is based on each individual unit and not comparable to any other unit.

2. WIPWH and not the budget is what is resourced to. For the first time all your hours not just your TM1 is included.

3. If you have introduced your table top revision and you are maintaining your WIPWH target you will reduce absorption and if you have hours of your variable spend than you lapse this rather than your TM1 hours.

4. As your using all your work hours to gauge productivity than any part timers who has worked above their contracted hours are already within those work hours and you can than providing your meeting your productivity target ask for them to be given an increase in contract.

5. PDA OA is relegated to only being an aid to assist resourcing if required rather than Royal Mail’s previous plan of being the default.

6. Every office once they have jointly validated their floor distances , local variances and data will then review if they could reach 196 within 3 years. They will not be required to go above.

7. Those offices who are currently above 196 will be reviewed to see why they are so high performing and to see whether this is either sustainable or good for culture.

8. No one has to fear productivity as OPGs work to standard performance on sorting , prep , automation , bull rings , delivery every single day. Often the issue that effects productivity is things like the flow of work , due to space constraints where you have to store the work , unique elements such as Lerwick in Scotland where they have to wait for a boat , all of these will be built into the local office own planning values.

[hans solo]

productivity measure my arse martin
its a made up fairytale system not fit for purpose takes no account of delivery aspects
based on figures from 2019
rm and cwu introduce a method ratify it together and tell us its brilliant georoute says this says that
horizon system ring a bell
as i said f**k your measurements STRAVA much more accurate to measure delivery timescales rm and cwu say its not recognised wonder why
work to time ,meal reliefs ,pish and s**t stops , and cut offs welome to the real world
and talking of toilet facilities (eh were working on it ) f***ing imbiciles

[Phantom]

All unmeasured work hours will be removed from the calculation which will include Meal Reliefs, Time bonus , address-graph , York repatriation, WTL , Training ,union reps release etc.

@Martin Walsh - Unmeasured work hours - Does this include all overtime in the mornings before duty times start? Because if this is not removed all the work hours/times etc. will be completely false.

[worktotime]

there are no walking speeds
its only guess work
all our duties have been done by geo route by planners they did not take into account attendance calls over 12 items ,stairs ,door entry systems ,
i will be doing my own walking speed f**k their agreement

so how can you do a revision on dutys with no walking speed ? , and how do they get to only 12 attendance calls ? and what time did they allocate for 1 attendance call , so its all a load of shite then and the cwu have agreed with it , but thats typical when its done by people who dont do the job everyday , oh well i will just carry on the way i work now and if i cant get done that fuckem .

[SpacePhoenix]

Everytime floorplans are messed with it always ends up being a clusterfuck

[postslippete]

The other issues are ongoing work to make sure we look at the range of performance across the UK including where individuals are coming in early etc.

That one is quite easy to solve. Get managers to give them more work to do indoors.

The number of times I start work and see posties stood round their frames having already put the 1st wave and packets in and are just waiting for the 2nd wave because they came in an hour early unpaid. If the manager gave them some additional work to do either sorting or prepping, they would soon think twice about coming in that early.

Few managers take upon their themselves to unsettle these posties though.

[Blaine]

Can Outdoor actuals even tell the difference between taking a job as normal, leaving a loop, bringing a loop back and doing overtime every day?

We have one person who's job is so big he's allowed to bring a section of it back every day to do the following day and still goes up to an hour over, it's a rural job there are no loops and only 2 or 3 people know it.

In contrast we have one person who's job has seen so many units in an industrial area leave and not get replaced, so he takes 1 loop of lapsing plus 1 loop of overtime by choice every day and claims whether it's 10 minutes or an hour. His cover will not take the loop of overtime however.

What about the smallest jobs in the office with lapsing removed that are given to walkers who work from home but have to deadwalk to their loop starts? For a year now these jobs that take 2-3 hours (historically paired with a larger job) have been shown to take 4,5 or 6!! hours because they don't have a van and have to wait for a driver to drop it out to them.

I suppose it's good OA are not being used, as too many variables screw with them. Jobs too long shown as being able to be done on time because someone else has to do part of it and jobs too small showing as not needing extra work because of unique circumstances

Most of the people that come in 30 minutes or an hour early in our office take extra breaks, so in theory they're still working contracted hours, they're just spending time chatting, drinking tea and going home during their round etc, very few come in early to finish early.

[Acca Dacca]

4. As your using all your work hours to gauge productivity than any part timers who has worked above their contracted hours are already within those work hours and you can than providing your meeting your productivity target ask for them to be given an increase in contract.

Dont you mean the rep will be able to ask for increased contracts to be handed out to part timers based on seniority - not specifically to those who have did the overtime