Hoping average holiday pay is imminent

[rogersh]

To quote Terry Pullinger DGSP in the recent live joint session responding to several questions re average holiday pay.

"We have absolutely been in talks on average holiday pay on the basis of we are trying to change everything & move things forward positively. It was crucial we deal with that issue as well & we are in negotiation & we've made more progress than we've ever made before on the subject. When we reach an agreement it will have to be tested on the members........... " I'm hoping it's (average holiday pay) imminent .........."

I think the court case was due in the summer but this appears to suggest their may be an agreement before then!

[Dexydog]

Obviously they know they are going to lose the court case, so at the eleventh hour strike a deal that enables them to pay less.
And the union will fall for it.
Mines with ACAS will just let them deal with it so hoping will still get back pay- you can bet that's what the negotiation will be about.

[Dorset Plodder]

It's a BIG problem that they really need to sort. Our Rep is always getting asked, "What's happening about the average pay situation"? All he can say is it's being dealt with by the courts. In the meantime it's mainly the PTers who are still suffering from getting short-changed everytime they get Leave.

They're obviously the ones who have to work sometimes double their contracts to make their hours up. I wonder if things might have moved faster if this cock up included all the Senior FTers as well?

[rogersh]

It looks like you're probably right dexy. I personally have nothing to gain at present, however this issue has been delayed for too long. (only partly due to covid)

[clashcityrocker]

If it was "crucial" it would have been sorted years ago,
No settlement is going to recompense part time staff for years of being short changed.
Terry is a joke.

[Woody Guthrie]

When we reach an agreement it will have to be tested on the members....

I wonder what we're actually looking at here?

An agreement to pay average wages over X weeks is a no brainer and you can't believe they've been arguing about that for 3 years so is the sticking point compensation for historic loss of wages in exchange for dropping all the ETs?

How much?
Will it be dependent on personal circumstances or a flat payment across the board?
Will it apply only to part-timers or across the board?

What does tested by the members actually mean?
A full vote is risky, everyone who's lost out will have a tough idea and any less than that is going to be asking for rejection, would full-time staff be asked to vote on something that mostly doesn't apply to them, again risky.

It could just be a basic agreement going forward and they'll just let the ETs play out but I doubt it.

[Dorset Plodder]

When we reach an agreement it will have to be tested on the members....

I wonder what we're actually looking at here?

I agree. I know Northern Ireland paid out £400M after their Court Case with the Police Service. How much backdated Holiday Pay can the Business actually afford? Perhaps they could claw back all those "Golden Handshakes" from the likes of Rico and put that in the pot?

[Dexydog]

Personally don't care what agreement is reached.
If RM think they can offer a few hundred quid in return for years of back pay, assuming the courts allow, they must think we're made of green cheese.
Then again, the union is or they wouldn't be "negotiating".
The law is the law and I will be pursuing any back pay in full, my claim is in ACAS' hands and it will stay with them.
In my case I have made a rough calculation over 5 years and it's well into several thousands.

[Woody Guthrie]

The law is the law

Employment law is fluid.
It relies on case precedent.
One bad judgement can change things completely.

[Dorset Plodder]

In my case I have made a rough calculation over 5 years and it's well into several thousands.

I'll take some advice from Benjamin Disraeli "I am prepared for the worst ... but hope for the best"!

[Dexydog]

Is there not lots of precedent already?
Firefighters, Northern Ireland as mentioned above, wasn't there also an ambulance one?
The point here is it sounds very much like RM have left it as long as they dare- if they thought they were going to win the case in June they wouldn't now be trying wiggle out of their obligations.
If it is true, as Terry appears to have stated, that the negotiations have been ongoing for a number of years, they must be getting twitchy.
It's hard to comment until we see the detail, but surely everyone should just be lodging with ACAS rather than an en masse settlement where there's only one winner.
I personally don't see how it is possible to give any money in lieu of back pay, as there are just too many variables.

[Dexydog]

In my case I have made a rough calculation over 5 years and it's well into several thousands.

I'll take some advice from Benjamin Disraeli "I am prepared for the worst ... but hope for the best"!

I actually don't think the court will allow backpayments for more than a couple of years- imagine someone on a part time contract for decades, they would be owed an eyewatering amount.
But even, say, 2 years, which I think is more reasonable and therefore likely, I would still be owed 2 -3 thousand.
Therefore ANY cash sweetener they might offer is in most cases likely to be insufficient.

[Dorset Plodder]

[quote=Dexydog post_id=939868 time=1619119300 user_id=84270

I actually don't think the court will allow backpayments for more than a couple of years- imagine someone on a part time contract for decades, they would be owed an eyewatering amount.

I hear what you're saying DD ..... BUT if RM have been making a profit over all those years (when they were short-changing all those Posties) I suppose there is a very good argument for making them repay all the monies that are owed, regardless? I know you wouldn't argue, as you're one of those owed a large sum.

Isn't it always the way that when the little guy takes on the big guy he basically has to accept whatever they offer. When it's some Media Idiot that's had their feelings hurt .... the sky's the limit .... and the cash flows! Immoral assholes the lot of them.

[Dexydog]

I agree and this is the EXACT reason the courts will only go a couple of years back at most.
Obviously hope I'm wrong, but it's just corporate robbery as I see it, and as you say the little man will always lose out.

[gerardy]

I thought England Scotland and Wales could only be back dated for 2 years due to a government sign off but Northern Ireland could get back dated for 20 years as nothing was signed off.
How are Royal Mail going to be able to sort this out when HR only keep records for 5 years?
Are the cwu going to try and lump Northern Ireland in with everyone else if a deal is made as it won't go down to well