Contract Hours Made Up

[P13]

Isn't it the most senior PT that gets first dibs on being made up to full time?

not if you dont drive!
why should full timers who dont drive stay full time?

Because they didn't have to drive when they joined Royal Mail

exactly neither did I - thats the point I joined years before they brought this in and I cant get full time now
so thats not fair is it?

Are you really suggesting your colleagues should have their hours cut because you haven't been made up to full time . Being made up to full time is based on seniority.

[TopperGas]

Isn't it the most senior PT that gets first dibs on being made up to full time?

not if you dont drive!
why should full timers who dont drive stay full time?

Because they didn't have to drive when they joined Royal Mail

exactly neither did I - thats the point I joined years before they brought this in and I cant get full time now
so thats not fair is it?

Are you really suggesting your colleagues should have their hours cut because you haven't been made up to full time . Being made up to full time is based on seniority.

Does any other PLC just promote employees based on their seniority rather than on suitability/performance etc, as a newbie Royal Mail seems stuck in some strange dark age.

[HTPostman]

Full time contracts being offered here - hours are 10.30 while 5.30 although you’re ‘expected’ to work till after 6pm if it’s busy. I can’t remember if it’s to include Sunday working too, probably. Day off will still be whatever they can give you. Tuesday in other words.

The idea is you come in at 10.30am to a fully prepped round (yeah right), tie up, head out do the round then finish off with a few hours LATs. In reality due to lack of staff and the usual shoddy management you’ll come in at 10.30am to an unprepped round that at best has the mech in, you’ll get out nearer midday and be pressured to complete and do the LATs.

I just love how they can’t offer FT contracts with earlier start times like every other FT worker here, they can’t offer you a proper rolling day off (a long weekend every 5 weeks or whatever it is), there’s always got to be these conditions attached so you still have a 2 tier workforce.

So far only 1 PTer I’ve spoken to is interested in the contract and fair play to her. I’m told if there’s not enough take up they’ll advertise for new starters on these contracts, good luck with that, it’s one thing being a new starter struggling to do a full round, it’s another then having to do a few hours LATs over a wide area. Hope they are supplied decent satnavs and a torch.

[P13]

Isn't it the most senior PT that gets first dibs on being made up to full time?

not if you dont drive!
why should full timers who dont drive stay full time?

Because they didn't have to drive when they joined Royal Mail

exactly neither did I - thats the point I joined years before they brought this in and I cant get full time now
so thats not fair is it?

Are you really suggesting your colleagues should have their hours cut because you haven't been made up to full time . Being made up to full time is based on seniority.

Does any other PLC just promote employees based on their seniority rather than on suitability/performance etc, as a newbie Royal Mail seems stuck in some strange dark age.

Being made up to full time isn't promotion , what is your suggestion, managers mates to be made up to full time

[POSTMAN]

How does R.M stand on contract hours made up, two guys in our office on 25 hr contracts last 2-3 years , yet working 40-45 hrs each week , my thinking was if you do the BIG hrs for so long a time period, you got made up automatic..any one know the answer.....

Simple answer - senior part timer get's 1st dibs.

[qwerty2]

Isn't it the most senior PT that gets first dibs on being made up to full time?

not if you dont drive!
why should full timers who dont drive stay full time?

Because they didn't have to drive when they joined Royal Mail

exactly neither did I - thats the point I joined years before they brought this in and I cant get full time now
so thats not fair is it?

Are you really suggesting your colleagues should have their hours cut because you haven't been made up to full time . Being made up to full time is based on seniority.

I'm senior to loads of people who've been made full time

[Blaine]

We recently got rid of contracts being made up be based on seniority, instead it's now based on who performs at least 35 hours on a regular basis, plus any additional overtime, at the 6 monthly reviews. It's a much fairer system and suits our office better because it's a large MPU, so most of your hours might not even be for your division, some could be for Sunday, scanning on night shift, LATs for multiple divisions or a collection duty in the evening.

In a small office with a single seniority list where there is not much overtime, it might make sense to keep using seniority to avoid arguments and favouritism, but I still think it's a bit of a dated system, you may as well make up those that actually do the hours first, and if you still need more contracted hours, then ask those that have been there the longest.

[clashcityrocker]

We recently got rid of contracts being made up be based on seniority, instead it's now based on who performs at least 35 hours on a regular basis, plus any additional overtime, at the 6 monthly reviews.

And who decided that?
And with what authority?

[Grumpyoldmailman]

Full time contracts being offered here - hours are 10.30 while 5.30 although you’re ‘expected’ to work till after 6pm if it’s busy. I can’t remember if it’s to include Sunday working too, probably. Day off will still be whatever they can give you. Tuesday in other words.

The idea is you come in at 10.30am to a fully prepped round (yeah right), tie up, head out do the round then finish off with a few hours LATs. In reality due to lack of staff and the usual shoddy management you’ll come in at 10.30am to an unprepped round that at best has the mech in, you’ll get out nearer midday and be pressured to complete and do the LATs.

I just love how they can’t offer FT contracts with earlier start times like every other FT worker here, they can’t offer you a proper rolling day off (a long weekend every 5 weeks or whatever it is), there’s always got to be these conditions attached so you still have a 2 tier workforce.

So far only 1 PTer I’ve spoken to is interested in the contract and fair play to her. I’m told if there’s not enough take up they’ll advertise for new starters on these contracts, good luck with that, it’s one thing being a new starter struggling to do a full round, it’s another then having to do a few hours LATs over a wide area. Hope they are supplied decent satnavs and a torch.

Surely that just going to cause them a lot of problems with LAT cut offs.

[HTPostman]

Full time contracts being offered here - hours are 10.30 while 5.30 although you’re ‘expected’ to work till after 6pm if it’s busy. I can’t remember if it’s to include Sunday working too, probably. Day off will still be whatever they can give you. Tuesday in other words.

The idea is you come in at 10.30am to a fully prepped round (yeah right), tie up, head out do the round then finish off with a few hours LATs. In reality due to lack of staff and the usual shoddy management you’ll come in at 10.30am to an unprepped round that at best has the mech in, you’ll get out nearer midday and be pressured to complete and do the LATs.

I just love how they can’t offer FT contracts with earlier start times like every other FT worker here, they can’t offer you a proper rolling day off (a long weekend every 5 weeks or whatever it is), there’s always got to be these conditions attached so you still have a 2 tier workforce.

So far only 1 PTer I’ve spoken to is interested in the contract and fair play to her. I’m told if there’s not enough take up they’ll advertise for new starters on these contracts, good luck with that, it’s one thing being a new starter struggling to do a full round, it’s another then having to do a few hours LATs over a wide area. Hope they are supplied decent satnavs and a torch.

Surely that just going to cause them a lot of problems with LAT cut offs.

You’d think so, though I imagine the phone call would be similar to the following:

‘Boss, it’s 3pm I’m only halfway round the round and then I’ve got 10 LATs spread over a 50 mile radius.’

‘Ok, just pull out the tracked deliver those then do your LATs. The rest can go back in the frame for you tomorrow.’

[TopperGas]

Isn't it the most senior PT that gets first dibs on being made up to full time?

If you're working PT hours I'd consider being made up to FT a financial promotion, as it means a guaranteed 35 hours week pay plus increased pension contributions.

"bosses mates" as you call it seems to work reasonable well in virtually every other UK PLC.

not if you dont drive!
why should full timers who dont drive stay full time?

Because they didn't have to drive when they joined Royal Mail

exactly neither did I - thats the point I joined years before they brought this in and I cant get full time now
so thats not fair is it?

Are you really suggesting your colleagues should have their hours cut because you haven't been made up to full time . Being made up to full time is based on seniority.

Does any other PLC just promote employees based on their seniority rather than on suitability/performance etc, as a newbie Royal Mail seems stuck in some strange dark age.

Being made up to full time isn't promotion , what is your suggestion, managers mates to be made up to full time

[yellowbelly]

We recently got rid of contracts being made up be based on seniority, instead it's now based on who performs at least 35 hours on a regular basis, plus any additional overtime, at the 6 monthly reviews.

And who decided that?
And with what authority?

Wasn't 'local agreements' the buzz phrase in the last negotiations/vote and perhaps everybody in the office agreed to it?

If it contravenes an RM/CWU agreement or CWU rule surely they'd be all over it......or perhaps not......

[clashcityrocker]

Wasn't 'local agreements' the buzz phrase in the last negotiations

If a local agreement can take precedence over a national agreement then there is no point in having national agreements.
There is no point in having national officers.
Local reps with limited training and vision do not get handed the right to make policy decisions.
If they are doing that then there is a massive problem with the whole structure of the CWU.

There are a multitude of reasons why someone might not be able to perform overtime but would still take an increase in their contracted hours if offered.

[NewPostieUK]

If a local agreement can take precedence over a national agreement then there is no point in having national agreements.
There is no point in having national officers.
Local reps with limited training and vision do not get handed the right to make policy decisions.
If they are doing that then there is a massive problem with the whole structure of the CWU.

There are a multitude of reasons why someone might not be able to perform overtime but would still take an increase in their contracted hours if offered.

This. Absolutely. Let's hope it's not a case of reps mates getting full time over more senior colleagues.

[yellowbelly]

Wasn't 'local agreements' the buzz phrase in the last negotiations

If a local agreement can take precedence over a national agreement then there is no point in having national agreements.
There is no point in having national officers.
Local reps with limited training and vision do not get handed the right to make policy decisions.
If they are doing that then there is a massive problem with the whole structure of the CWU.

There are a multitude of reasons why someone might not be able to perform overtime but would still take an increase in their contracted hours if offered.

Absolutely, don't disagree with you Clash, but when the latest agreement includes the phrase "...CWU reps and employees being encouraged and empowered to agree local solutions on day to day operational issues." even though the same agreement document says everything must be done
in line with existing agreements, it leaves it wide open for local management to try to drive through what ever changes they want.
Depends on somebody's interpretation of what a 'day to day operational issue' is.

Again, if the colleagues in the office and office rep let it happen then as you say - what's the point.
Poster qwerty2 states that they're senior to staff who've been made up to FT and Blaine has brought up this new
local situation, so both situations apparently break the 'seniority' rule. The problem already exists, so it seems
there is a problem with CWU colleagues and/or reps not enforcing their own rules/agreements.

Genuine question from myself being a relative newbie - what agreement/rule/regulation stipulates that the most senior staff
are offered the hours first? I've briefly glanced through the Four Pillars, Agenda for Growth and BT 2010 and can see that
RM keep saying 6 month review of hours for PT'ers etc but nothing that says seniority gets the hours first. If it's in some really old
agreement or union rule book then perhaps that's part of the problem - nobody knows where it is so they can stick it
under a managers nose!