The PDA data will show the time it takes to complete a delivery from start to finish and if it's being done correctly.
Whether people start early or skip breaks is pretty much irrelevant.
of course its relevant , so starting early doesnt effect the indoor work or the time you get out on delivery when youve not had a break before leaving the office? , and yes the pda data will show your outdoor span but how does it know if youve used a lwt which is mandatory by the way or carrying a bag ?
The PDA data isn't used to plan indoor workload.
The IWT plans indoor workload.
It plans it from start time not when some idiot decides to come into work.
When building an indoor plan you have to use verifiable data, including breaks, you can't build a revision on the basis of people coming in early, there isn't an input for stupid.
It is not stupid to come in early. It is done for a variety of reasons. It allows some to complete OT and still finish early enough to meet other commitments. They are maximising their income. It allows others to finish early and meet other commitments. For some it means they can take a relaxed approach to the day knowing they can still finish on time. For some they feel obliged to be part of the team and if others are working early they don't like be seen as not doing their share. For some they fear not being able to finish in time but do not want the stress of constant arguments and pressure. It may be ill advised but not stupid.
What is stupid is the constant BS from both RM and CWU on this and job and finish.
It is not stupid to come in early. It is done for a variety of reasons. It allows some to complete OT and still finish early enough to meet other commitments. They are maximising their income. It allows others to finish early and meet other commitments. For some it means they can take a relaxed approach to the day knowing they can still finish on time. For some they feel obliged to be part of the team and if others are working early they don't like be seen as not doing their share. For some they fear not being able to finish in time but do not want the stress of constant arguments and pressure. It may be ill advised but not stupid.
What is stupid is the constant BS from both RM and CWU on this and job and finish.
Coming in early (unpaid), to get out on delivery early, if it alters your units finishing time, then it causes huge issues in DO's. It didn't matter that people were still doing their 4.5hr delivery span, all our area manager saw was collection consolidation barcodes getting scanned at 90 minutes before the end of the shift, by more than a few staff. They then come looking for that time back however they can get it.
I've heard all the excuses for starting early but seriously none of them hold up. This is a job and you can't be inventing your own hours even if it does help your outside life, even in jobs where flex-time exists it still has to be within guidelines and agreed.
Having said that hours don't get taken out of an office because of people starting early or skipping their breaks, they get taken out because the tools say you have too many core hours against workload. Again you can't take hours out of an office based on early starting because it's not a valid parameter and the office would show up as having missing hours.
Again having said that starting early and skipping breaks is still stupid because it enables more lapsing, allows managers to delay recruitment and blocks the uplifting of part-time hours. It also puts your colleagues who aren't doing it under more pressure because duties become too large and are covered up by starting even earlier. It also reduces overtime availability.
So yes it's stupid but no offices don't lose core hours because of it.
That's why I said they want it back however they can get it.
Things they would normally spend overtime on, they are told not to as staff are finishing well before time.
It won't slash hours from an office, but it will delay hours getting added due to new housing etc.
"it enables more lapsing, allows managers to delay recruitment and blocks the uplifting of part-time hours. It also puts your colleagues who aren't doing it under more pressure because duties become too large and are covered up by starting even earlier. It also reduces overtime availability."
None of the above are caused by early starts. Lapsing is agreed at the resourcing meeting between the CWU rep and the DOM and is based on agreed resourcing guidelines. Duty sizes are determined using agreed tools. Part time hours are looked at every 6 months and uplifts follow agreed procedures. Overtime is available when resourcing demands it. If any of the above are happening in your office then your CWU reps are either failing in their duty to put in disagreements or the CWU has failed to have a relevant and useful disagreement process. The blame is is with RM and CWU and not with people doing their jobs.
Blaming early starters is too easy. The problem lies with the CWU not being able or being interested in ensuring agreements are implemented locally. We are still being told that we can only recruit PT staff. What data does the CWU leadership have on local situations? How many offices are staffed to their current TM1? 12 years a member and have never seen my paid Divisional Rep and have no idea who it is. What do they do to ensure members locally are content?
Behave yourself, you're describing a situation that isn't reality in 90% of offices.
You're also calling on the union and Royal Mail to do their jobs properly but at the same time turn a blind eye to the fact that some members don't. That's a completely untenable position.
Royal Mail has every right to ask members to work to their finish time every day without taking into account when they started, if that means giving them more work that would have been resourced by overtime there is absolutely nothing the union can do.Weekly resource meetings have nothing to do with that.
Lapsing like the workload in general is dynamic, members who start early will take it whether they would have had capacity or not because they really can't refuse if they're finishing early can they? There is nothing the union can do about this
Blaming early starters is too easy.
Yes it is and I've often argued that case but so is absolving them and blaming everything on the union.
'Behave yourself, you're describing a situation that isn't reality in 90% of offices.'
I think that's my point. You are saying that agreements made between CWU and RM are ignored in 90% of offices. Are the paid officials aware of this? What is the strategy and tactics to change this? What data does the union have? What is the average start and finish time ? What is the average delivery time, by office, by area, by division etc. How many offices are resourced to their TMI? Are managers refusing to appoint FT staff.
What is the plan, more agreements that look great on paper but mean nothing in practice?
I have said before RM have the right to keep staff to their finish times but in reality its just a bluff that the CWU too often refuses to call. And as you say this would only effect early starters anyway.
If the TM1 is not being maintained who is responsible? Do the CWU know or care? What action plan is implemented? I have seen Mark Baulch say the TM1 is the TM1 and must be maintained. Who is responsible for ensuring this if it isnt him? Your local rep who doesn't have any release time?
Even if you think the agreements themselves are good what is their purpose without implementation plans and clear penalties for non-compliance.
Work to time the guidelines on the structural revisions were only sent out Tuesday. The first 100 offices have had two training sessions and a third is being scheduled.
A start up meeting has happened in most. However we are at least 8 weeks and probably longer from any duty output from the revision process. There are numerous joint signs offs after ensuring each offices data both indoor , variations and outdoor time are properly recorded.
So if any office is currently experiencing problems it has nothing to do with the Pathway to change Agreement as nothing has been deployed yet.
Not had any figures, or if we have the branch havn't sent us any.
We have indeed had a `start up meeting` this was a couple of weeks ago and dates where set for certain things like Equality Act/ flexible working to be identified etc etc , except feck all has been done since, it's no wonder the revisions take so long when the Dom and our rep can't be arsed.
Royal Mail managers.....about as popular as a t.urd in a swimming pool!
The DDA/Equality Act demands action,NOT words......adjustments NOT Occupational Health referrals.Case No:2505901/09
Royal Mail is an Equal Opportunities Employer..It discriminates against everybody.
Work to time the guidelines on the structural revisions were only sent out Tuesday. The first 100 offices have had two training sessions and a third is being scheduled.
A start up meeting has happened in most. However we are at least 8 weeks and probably longer from any duty output from the revision process. There are numerous joint signs offs after ensuring each offices data both indoor , variations and outdoor time are properly recorded.
So if any office is currently experiencing problems it has nothing to do with the Pathway to change Agreement as nothing has been deployed yet.
and the cwu and rm expect everything should be done and rosy by October then ? and if October is anything like last year and they still think they can sort dutys out and have a repick and still expect you to do the job and provide a service is , so will pda data be used to record outdoor delivery spans ? if yes then why hasnt the cwu mentioned to members that this is what rm are doing and so do the you properly because of this , start on time , breaks , use the kit so the data they have is proper and not based on false information .
If pda data is used in my office we are totally screwed, office is full of early start break skipping runners who are finished “early” every single day. They will be the first to have a fit and kick off when the delivery’s all get bigger of course. We are our own worst enemies at times.
same at our office and i would like to see what the data shows , some starting 1 - 2 hours early for FREE, run round and dont take breaks and then start crying when they are given extra work , s**t and fan comes to mind .
Work to time the guidelines on the structural revisions were only sent out Tuesday. The first 100 offices have had two training sessions and a third is being scheduled.
A start up meeting has happened in most. However we are at least 8 weeks and probably longer from any duty output from the revision process. There are numerous joint signs offs after ensuring each offices data both indoor , variations and outdoor time are properly recorded.
So if any office is currently experiencing problems it has nothing to do with the Pathway to change Agreement as nothing has been deployed yet.
and the cwu and rm expect everything should be done and rosy by October then ? and if October is anything like last year and they still think they can sort dutys out and have a repick and still expect you to do the job and provide a service is , so will pda data be used to record outdoor delivery spans ? if yes then why hasnt the cwu mentioned to members that this is what rm are doing and so do the you properly because of this , start on time , breaks , use the kit so the data they have is proper and not based on false information .
If pda data is used in my office we are totally screwed, office is full of early start break skipping runners who are finished “early” every single day. They will be the first to have a fit and kick off when the delivery’s all get bigger of course. We are our own worst enemies at times.
same at our office and i would like to see what the data shows , some starting 1 - 2 hours early for FREE, run round and dont take breaks and then start crying when they are given extra work , s**t and fan comes to mind .
How can you start 1 or 2 hrs early? If I did that there would literally be nothing for me to do for an hr . Who sorts your ips mail and pkts? If I started an hr earlier I'd still be getting out the same time and so finishing the same time (usually late) . Just don't get it.
If there are (and reading this it seems to be the case) offices where people are regularly finished well before their finish time, they are in for a nasty shock. There aren't many days where there are more than 5-10% of our deliveries that are able to complete before their time. I would say 50% of the office is regularly claiming docket to complete their delivery. In our revision, we are gonna have to make more deliveries, not take them out.
How can you start 1 or 2 hrs early? If I did that there would literally be nothing for me to do for an hr . Who sorts your ips mail and pkts? If I started an hr earlier I'd still be getting out the same time and so finishing the same time (usually late) . Just don't get it.
When I walk in most posties have got their D2Ds, 1st wave and most of their packets in. Often they are just sat waiting for the 2nd wave and more parcels to be sorted. I don't think they save much time by coming in an hour early.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
How can you start 1 or 2 hrs early? If I did that there would literally be nothing for me to do for an hr . Who sorts your ips mail and pkts? If I started an hr earlier I'd still be getting out the same time and so finishing the same time (usually late) . Just don't get it.
When I walk in most posties have got their D2Ds, 1st wave and most of their packets in. Often they are just sat waiting for the 2nd wave and more parcels to be sorted. I don't think they save much time by coming in an hour early.
Exactly. I would rather spend the least amount of time I can at work, whilst earning what I need to. Sitting at my frame twiddling my thumbs is funnily enough, not something I think I'll have wished I'd done more of when I'm on my deathbed.
A lot people come in early so their not as stressed specially when double prepping etc,your health is more important than money or time not everyone is arsed micro managing,if your up early might as well get on top of your frame or you could twiddle your thumbs at home.
this was a couple of weeks ago and dates where set for certain things like Equality Act/ flexible working to be identified etc etc , except feck all has been done since, it's no wonder the revisions take so long when the Dom and our rep can't be arsed.
, so will pda data be used to record outdoor delivery spans ? if yes then why hasnt the cwu mentioned to members that this is what rm are doing and so do the you properly because of this , start on time , breaks , use the kit so the data they have is proper and not based on false information .