AHDC

[postslippete]

well this is my way of thinking , is that the company and the cwu has basically said it wont affect pay or any ghost o/t , but i will put money on it all the ghost o/t and early finishes ( starting early for free , not using the methods , not taking meal breaks ) will be clocked by the company on how many hours can be saved in the yearly revisions in offices which the cwu have agreed to so it will be just a matter of time then s**t will hit the fan , but heho the golden carrot was dangled

That’s my theory too. Don’t think they are interested in targeting individuals. They just want the data to use in yearly revisions as proof of how many hours can be taken out of an office. It’s going to be very hard for any local reps to defend duties being cut from the office if the data says 200 hours a week(or however many) are being paid for but not worked.

I think they already believe there are big savings to be made based on what the PDA actuals will have told them over the last few years.

One example. Several months ago on what seemed like a particularly heavy Monday I said to our DOM that we could have done with a few more people in early on overtime to do IPS. His response was “why should I pay out overtime when last Monday across the whole office people finished a total of 60 hours early?”. They already have a good idea of what’s going on and what the results of clocking in and out will show.

It’s actually a smart approach from their point of view. Target individuals and people will just start doing the job properly and work till their time. Better to let people carry on as they are, collect the data and make permanent savings further down the line.

Those who get paid to come in early on IPS are saving the Unit money. Managers know that if the mail and packets are sorted when staff come in, it means that they are less likely to cut off and/or finish before their time. Imagine a section of 30 posties and half of them leave a few loops that then need covering as opposed to those same 30 posties with 20 of them finishing before their time and only one of them leaving a loop. All for the sake of paying out a few hours on IPS.

My gut feeling on clocking machines is that they may force managers to stop paying out on ghost overtime as everything is being recorded. Who's going to cover those duties, well, our office has been recruiting posties like theres no tomorrow. The gameplan in having an army of posties at your disposal.

[Marshamp11]

well this is my way of thinking , is that the company and the cwu has basically said it wont affect pay or any ghost o/t , but i will put money on it all the ghost o/t and early finishes ( starting early for free , not using the methods , not taking meal breaks ) will be clocked by the company on how many hours can be saved in the yearly revisions in offices which the cwu have agreed to so it will be just a matter of time then s**t will hit the fan , but heho the golden carrot was dangled

That’s my theory too. Don’t think they are interested in targeting individuals. They just want the data to use in yearly revisions as proof of how many hours can be taken out of an office. It’s going to be very hard for any local reps to defend duties being cut from the office if the data says 200 hours a week(or however many) are being paid for but not worked.

I think they already believe there are big savings to be made based on what the PDA actuals will have told them over the last few years.

One example. Several months ago on what seemed like a particularly heavy Monday I said to our DOM that we could have done with a few more people in early on overtime to do IPS. His response was “why should I pay out overtime when last Monday across the whole office people finished a total of 60 hours early?”. They already have a good idea of what’s going on and what the results of clocking in and out will show.

It’s actually a smart approach from their point of view. Target individuals and people will just start doing the job properly and work till their time. Better to let people carry on as they are, collect the data and make permanent savings further down the line.

Agree. 100%
I have been saying exactly the same thing as soon as the idea of clocking in and out raised its head.

[Phantom]

What you will find is that overtime done in the mornings (before official start time) will be severely cut due to causing early finishing.

[worktotime]

well this is my way of thinking , is that the company and the cwu has basically said it wont affect pay or any ghost o/t , but i will put money on it all the ghost o/t and early finishes ( starting early for free , not using the methods , not taking meal breaks ) will be clocked by the company on how many hours can be saved in the yearly revisions in offices which the cwu have agreed to so it will be just a matter of time then s**t will hit the fan , but heho the golden carrot was dangled

That’s my theory too. Don’t think they are interested in targeting individuals. They just want the data to use in yearly revisions as proof of how many hours can be taken out of an office. It’s going to be very hard for any local reps to defend duties being cut from the office if the data says 200 hours a week(or however many) are being paid for but not worked.

I think they already believe there are big savings to be made based on what the PDA actuals will have told them over the last few years.

One example. Several months ago on what seemed like a particularly heavy Monday I said to our DOM that we could have done with a few more people in early on overtime to do IPS. His response was “why should I pay out overtime when last Monday across the whole office people finished a total of 60 hours early?”. They already have a good idea of what’s going on and what the results of clocking in and out will show.

It’s actually a smart approach from their point of view. Target individuals and people will just start doing the job properly and work till their time. Better to let people carry on as they are, collect the data and make permanent savings further down the line.

to right

[Dorset Plodder]

I agree that the Data Capture will probably not be targeted at Individual Duties, but will probably be used to try and reduce Office hours at each Annual Revue. We, as Posties, may not like the idea but we have to be Realistic. Is any Business going to pay out for work which is basically not being done.

We are our own worst enemy. If you come in before your Official Start Time (and work for Free).......If you Prep Households on a Saturday Afternoon, ready for Monday, whilst chatting to like minded colleagues (for Free)...... If you work through your Meal Relief chewing on a Mars Bar and don't claim anything on the OT sheet (working for Free) ...... If you've been carving up your Duty for years, with any of the Dodgy Tricks some Posties use, just so you can finish early (giving the impression your Duty is Do-able when it's not) Then really we've only got ourselves to blame.

You can't really blame the CWU they've been Running "Do the Job Properly" Campaigns for years , with little effect.

The Ironic thing is that when hours are taken out of an Office, because of the Data Capture, they're not just going to be taken off those Duties that Finish an hour early every day. Those Posties with Monster Rounds will suffer as well. For everyone's benefit STOP WORKING FOR FREE.

[yubin282]

What you will find is that overtime done in the mornings (before official start time) will be severely cut due to causing early finishing.

as it should be

[Cedar_Room]

I can see some of the early birds from my DO really losing their heads over this. Still coming in early,cutting corners & looking for any means necessary to grab an early dart & chucking their toys out of the pram if for some reason it doesn’t happen! I’m not exaggerating when I say it is an absolute obsession for a couple of them! I’ve learned to stop trying to reason with them & keep silent,but inside I find myself constantly wondering how supposed grown ups can behave like this? They really do have to be seen & heard to be believed!

[DGH]

What you will find is that overtime done in the mornings (before official start time) will be severely cut due to causing early finishing.

The answer is to turn that morning overtime into actual duty time with those who do it having shorter delivery spans.

But that would need management . . .

[Dorset Plodder]

I can see some of the early birds from my DO really losing their heads over this. Still coming in early,cutting corners & looking for any means necessary to grab an early dart & chucking their toys out of the pram if for some reason it doesn’t happen! I’m not exaggerating when I say it is an absolute obsession for a couple of them! I’ve learned to stop trying to reason with them & keep silent,but inside I find myself constantly wondering how supposed grown ups can behave like this? They really do have to be seen & heard to be believed!

I think every office has their fair share of Early Birds. I believe what you're saying because ours are just the same. They remind me of dogs waiting to go for a walk. Pacing back & forth waiting for the last bit of IPS so they can bundle up and rush out the door.

The noise volume normally drops dramatically once they've gone out as well!

[Dorset Plodder]

The answer is to turn that morning overtime into actual duty time with those who do it having shorter delivery spans.
But that would need management . . .

The Business is moving to later, and later, starts. So as much as a lot of us liked the Early Starts I don't think we're going to be moving in that direction. Our start times are dictated by the time the mail arrives, so it makes no sense to have loads of staff in early... with nothing to do.

Our DOM has tried in the past to get extra indoor work done on some of our Oversized duties, "To help you get out the door earlier"!

Our Reps opinion was: "Take an hour off the oversized duties then... any idiot (AKA DOMs Favourites) can throw off some extra Mech while chatting with their mates and Drinking Tea, instead of walking around in the Cold & Rain". It was an Opinion that was shared by a lot of people in the office.

[DGH]

You wouldn't have loads of staff in though. You'd have a few staff in an duty doing the work that would otherwise be covered by early overtime. The standard start time for the office could be 0600 or 0900, it'd make no odds.

[Cedar_Room]

I can see some of the early birds from my DO really losing their heads over this. Still coming in early,cutting corners & looking for any means necessary to grab an early dart & chucking their toys out of the pram if for some reason it doesn’t happen! I’m not exaggerating when I say it is an absolute obsession for a couple of them! I’ve learned to stop trying to reason with them & keep silent,but inside I find myself constantly wondering how supposed grown ups can behave like this? They really do have to be seen & heard to be believed!

I think every office has their fair share of Early Birds. I believe what you're saying because ours are just the same. They remind me of dogs waiting to go for a walk. Pacing back & forth waiting for the last bit of IPS so they can bundle up and rush out the door.

The noise volume normally drops dramatically once they've gone out as well!

My frame is situated very close to two of the main culprits. The look of sheer determination on their faces to be first out of the door EVERY SINGLE DAY without fail is a source of constant amusement for me! It goes without saying that if something hinders their progress to exit the building ASAP,specials not ready,van been moved,mail arriving late,weather disruption- it’s safe to say all hell breaks loose!

[Dorset Plodder]

My frame is situated very close to two of the main culprits. The look of sheer determination on their faces to be first out of the door EVERY SINGLE DAY without fail is a source of constant amusement for me! It goes without saying that if something hinders their progress to exit the building ASAP,specials not ready,van been moved,mail arriving late,weather disruption- it’s safe to say all hell breaks loose!

Yep that's a good one. One of ours loves to park his van first space from the door. His Relief can't quite manage to carve the duty up as well as him so sometimes has to park somewhere else. You should hear the fuss the next day, "Where have you parked my van ? Is it in the usual place"? Our carpark's not that massive normally someone shouts, "FFS just walk out the door and press your key fob.... whichever van blinks at you is yours Dickhead"!