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Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Coronavirus discussion forum.
Caesar
Posts: 234
Joined: 22 Nov 2018, 12:23
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Caesar »

Acca Dacca wrote:
24 Jan 2021, 18:16

What that really says is you dont mind what consequences come your colleagues way as a result of you being a danger to them.

I hope you get what you need.
No it doesn't. It says that I don't believe that I'm putting anybody in danger. I follow social distancing rules, wash my hands regularly and clean the touch points of my van at the end of each shift.
If wearing a mask only caused discomfort, I would wear one just to ease the fears of others but its more than that.
sindba
Posts: 1450
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:27
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by sindba »

Caesar wrote:
24 Jan 2021, 18:51
Acca Dacca wrote:
24 Jan 2021, 18:16

What that really says is you dont mind what consequences come your colleagues way as a result of you being a danger to them.

I hope you get what you need.
No it doesn't. It says that I don't believe that I'm putting anybody in danger. I follow social distancing rules, wash my hands regularly and clean the touch points of my van at the end of each shift.
If wearing a mask only caused discomfort, I would wear one just to ease the fears of others but its more than that.
Your honesty is refreshing.

But please understand that many colleagues are scared of Covid.

Understand that, according to all evidence, you risk infecting someone and, down the line, killing someone if you refuse to wear a mask.

Please.
jon1ty
Posts: 6
Joined: 18 Nov 2008, 15:17
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by jon1ty »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
21 Jan 2021, 22:05
As yet uncomfirmed but I've been informed that yesterday Royal Mail issued instructions to managers to question reasons for non-compliance of mask wearing giving managers permission to seek confirmatory letters from Doctors ( at employees cost of between £25 to £50).

As I say we're still waiting on confirmation as to whether it's a business wide position or just rogue managers but it appears legit.
rubbish doctors won,t give letters out
wandle
Posts: 944
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 17:17
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by wandle »

jon1ty wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 00:23
Woody Guthrie wrote:
21 Jan 2021, 22:05
As yet uncomfirmed but I've been informed that yesterday Royal Mail issued instructions to managers to question reasons for non-compliance of mask wearing giving managers permission to seek confirmatory letters from Doctors ( at employees cost of between £25 to £50).

As I say we're still waiting on confirmation as to whether it's a business wide position or just rogue managers but it appears legit.
rubbish doctors won,t give letters out
Any rogue RM managers should note what the LAW says on the matter

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-your-own

If you have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering:

you do not routinely need to show any written evidence of this
you do not need show an exemption card
This means that you do not need to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about your reason for not wearing a face covering.
TrueBlueTerrier
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 72613
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
Gender: Male
Location: On my couch

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

wandle wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 12:47

Any rogue RM managers should note what the LAW says on the matter

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-your-own

If you have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering:

you do not routinely need to show any written evidence of this
you do not need show an exemption card
This means that you do not need to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about your reason for not wearing a face covering.
Unfortunately you missed these gems
This information relates to the use of face coverings in public spaces where social distancing is not always possible.
Normal policies relating to occupational workwear and PPE will continue to apply.
Work, by its definition is not a public space so those LAWs don't apply. The discussion at the moment is that RMs lawyers have advised them they can ask for proof as with other forms of PPE. We may not like it but it wouldn't be the manager worrying about the law and how its applied (RM have covered them) its Joe the postie that needs to be certain of his position within the law.
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wandle
Posts: 944
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 17:17
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by wandle »

Face coverings are not PPE. That’s not me saying this, it’s the HSE.
B35B2355-6214-475D-B9B4-515B95E8CFB2.jpeg
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Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Woody Guthrie »

You're completely missing the point.
Employers can implement any dress code or safety measure they want including face masks.
If you have a genuine medical reason not to wear it the employer must try where reasonably practical to accommodate that but the onus is on you to provide evidence.

This is not a new position, some employers have had face mask requirements for years.
Only dead fish follow the current
Caesar
Posts: 234
Joined: 22 Nov 2018, 12:23
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Caesar »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 13:48
You're completely missing the point.
Employers can implement any dress code or safety measure they want including face masks.
If you have a genuine medical reason not to wear it the employer must try where reasonably practical to accommodate that but the onus is on you to provide evidence.

This is not a new position, some employers have had face mask requirements for years.
I don't think that we are missing the point. The way I see it is that Employers can implement a dress code that includes face masks but we can claim exemption. The employer can't deny the rights of the employee regarding these exemptions otherwise they could be in breach of the discrimination act.
If an employer implemented the requirement of masks as part of our PPE, these masks would have to be standardised and be accepted has PPE. Even if these PPE class masks where available to all employees they could still claim exemption. Evidence could then be requested and the employer would have to try to accommodate that by using the social distancing rules that should of been in place since the start.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Woody Guthrie »

The employer can't deny the rights of the employee regarding these exemptions otherwise they could be in breach of the discrimination act.
How many times does this need to be explained?
The Equality Act does not protect people who just 'say' they have a disability.
Is that difficult to understand?
Only dead fish follow the current
Acca Dacca
Posts: 3199
Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 17:13
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Acca Dacca »

Do some of you phone in sick and say 'Wont be in for next two weeks gaffer but I dont need to tell you why due to data protection'?
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
Caesar
Posts: 234
Joined: 22 Nov 2018, 12:23
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Caesar »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 17:40
The employer can't deny the rights of the employee regarding these exemptions otherwise they could be in breach of the discrimination act.
How many times does this need to be explained?
The Equality Act does not protect people who just 'say' they have a disability.
Is that difficult to understand?
It's not difficult to understand and I do agree concerning people who just "say" they have a disability.
I'm really talking about people who "have" got a disability but without "written" evidence.
Schiff
Posts: 544
Joined: 01 Nov 2016, 22:02
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Schiff »

Caesar wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 19:00
Woody Guthrie wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 17:40
The employer can't deny the rights of the employee regarding these exemptions otherwise they could be in breach of the discrimination act.
How many times does this need to be explained?
The Equality Act does not protect people who just 'say' they have a disability.
Is that difficult to understand?
It's not difficult to understand and I do agree concerning people who just "say" they have a disability.
I'm really talking about people who "have" got a disability but without "written" evidence.
Have you actually read the Equality Act 2010 or any detailed analysis of it?

Let's start with the definition of a disability for the purposes of the Act, taken from the guidance issued by the Office for Disability Issues.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... nition.pdf
The Act defines a disabled person as a person with a disability. A person has a disability for the purposes of the Act if he or she has a physical or mental impairment and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities (S6(1)).A2. This means that, in general:• the person must have an impairment that is either physical or mental (see paragraphs A3 to A8);• the impairment must have adverse effects which are substantial (see Section B);• the substantial adverse effects must be long-term (see Section C); and• the long-term substantial adverse effects must be effects on normal day-to-day activities (see Section D).This definition is subject to the provisions in Schedule 1 (Sch1).
I fail to see how anyone can have a disability for the purposes of the act without being able to provide evidence. In fact, it is only the courts who can decide definitively whether someone has a disability for the purposes of the act. OH will only give their opinion. They won't state for certain whether someone is or isn't disabled as it isn't for them to make that decision.

Now if you think that the courts won't be bothered about little matters like actual evidence when making their determination then you are living in a different universe to the rest of us.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Woody Guthrie »

I'm really talking about people who "have" got a disability but without "written" evidence.

A disability without "written" evidence is self diagnosis.
Self diagnosis is not covered under the Equality Act.
Only dead fish follow the current
sindba
Posts: 1450
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:27
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by sindba »

Caesar wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 19:00
Woody Guthrie wrote:
25 Jan 2021, 17:40
The employer can't deny the rights of the employee regarding these exemptions otherwise they could be in breach of the discrimination act.
How many times does this need to be explained?
The Equality Act does not protect people who just 'say' they have a disability.
Is that difficult to understand?

I'm really talking about people who "have" got a disability but without "written" evidence.
Lol.

Good luck in that tribunal, pal. You'll need it.
Acca Dacca
Posts: 3199
Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 17:13
Gender: Male

Re: Why isn't Mask policy being enforced?

Post by Acca Dacca »

I would object to being told that I have to wear a face mask in the office mainly because I believe that they could do more harm than good in restricting the amount of oxygen that I inhale. I could cope with the discomfort if it meant it would please the majority.
I do think that the jury is still out on wether masks work or not otherwise I think we would already be required to wear them in the office.
Those are your own words from last year Caesar
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next