Clocking in and out entry system

[blacov]

Royal mail senior management could be in for a big shock if clock in/out changed the way work gets done in an delivery office. Imagine if people really stopped working for free, stopped rushing, actually work by the book and on top of all of that there are no deals anymore. I reckon 3/4 delivery offices across the country will struggle. On the other hand it will cost business even more money as number of people claiming overtime will increase 10 fold.

[tractorboy2]

Scan In/Out data will not be used for the automatic reduction of contractual pay or
allowances based on data captured, or to reduce overtime pay where a (verbal)
contract has been agreed with the manager prior to commencement.

Will NOT be used for the AUTOMATIC reduction of contractual pay !!

2 weeks later

Lino you went home early 3 times that week , so we are deducting those hours from next weeks pay.

[priority102]

This business of "pay won't be deducted if you get back a bit early and go onto overtime if authorised by a DOM", as they say - if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. This will start OK but as sure as eggs are eggs the higher bods will be analysing every office and every hour lost this way and beating the DOM with it. Let's see how long it is before disagreements are back to the fore.

[DGH]

This business of "pay won't be deducted if you get back a bit early and go onto overtime if authorised by a DOM", as they say - if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. This will start OK but as sure as eggs are eggs the higher bods will be analysing every office and every hour lost this way and beating the DOM with it. Let's see how long it is before disagreements are back to the fore.

Middle management (ie above DOM, below director) appear to excel at undermining the spirit of every agreement, usually under the guise of 'needing to save money'.

'Innovative local solutions' will quickly become 'do this because the area manager says so'.

[HTPostman]

It’s so simple.

Start time: Feel free to clock in early but you won’t get paid.

Finish time: There’s always something to do be it going back out with a bag, collecting trays, giving your van a clean, prep, tidy your frame. It shouldn’t allow people to clock out early.

Overtime: Get rid of all the indoor stuff on the PDA, and have an overtime app. If you’ve agreed an hour at the end, it will show on your PDA. Then when you clock out an hour late there’s no issues and you will be paid.

Why bring in a system and then straight away let managers and posties override it through verbal agreements?!

[priority102]

It’s so simple.


Why bring in a system and then straight away let managers and posties override it through verbal agreements?!

Exactly, which is why as I said in my post above, just give it a little time..........

[2yearpostie]

It’s so simple.

Start time: Feel free to clock in early but you won’t get paid.

Finish time: There’s always something to do be it going back out with a bag, collecting trays, giving your van a clean, prep, tidy your frame. It shouldn’t allow people to clock out early.

Overtime: Get rid of all the indoor stuff on the PDA, and have an overtime app. If you’ve agreed an hour at the end, it will show on your PDA. Then when you clock out an hour late there’s no issues and you will be paid.

Why bring in a system and then straight away let managers and posties override it through verbal agreements?!

or indeed if you come early for morning overtime (prepping multipul jobs etc)

[yubin282]

What about those being paid OT to do the IPS work, you know the IPS work that doesn't exist anymore.

VOTE NO.

[mjd24]

Scan In/Out data will not be used for the automatic reduction of contractual pay or
allowances based on data captured, or to reduce overtime pay where a (verbal)
contract has been agreed with the manager prior to commencement.

I can’t believe RM have gone to the efforts of having these talks (when they could’ve attempted to bring in the changes without any consultation) and yet put in such a big loophole. It’s just inviting ghost OT. When will we see a stop to it and people being made to work the hours they are paid for.

Surely the difficulty is that postie A is capable of doing 2 frames (doubling up) in 7 hours but then postie B would take 7 hours to do 1 and a half frame. . . so should they both receive the same amount of overtime when one of them has done quite a bit more?

[Blaine]

That "loophole" works in both Royal Mail's and our favour though, so why would they put a stop to it? It wouldn't make sense to disadvantage themselves. I charge time and a half or double time for most of my overtime because I'm usually the difference between failure and not. My office knows this and knows I'm happy to do a few hours extra most of the time, so when they ring me they know what price has to be paid. I usually end up with tracked/specials/LATs/broken down vans and lately Covid kits and loops that just can't be shifted by people who already deliver near them.

The other option to them is hire agency, which would be very costly, or more part timers, which means some days they might not have enough work, what then? Failure means potential fines. It's cheaper for RM just to make these deals isn't it? And I get a nice little reward from it. I call it my bonus lol.

Obviously, I believe overtime should be time and a half by default, but realistically is that going to happen? I don't think so, so I get to make the rules because it's my free time, they can agree or disagree at the end of the day. If the clocking in and out system was linked to pay, I imagine people in the same boat as me might not be so willing to help out as much. The incentive just wouldn't be good enough.

I get it's not necessarily fair for everyone, but it's up to each person what overtime they do and what they charge, it's none of my business. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about ghost O/T. Everyone that's moaned at me about it are those people that refuse to go a minute over. That's your choice! I won't moan at you for working to time. Let people go about their own business. Too many unfortunately concerned with what others do.

[number one]

That "loophole" works in both Royal Mail's and our favour though, so why would they put a stop to it? It wouldn't make sense to disadvantage themselves. I charge time and a half or double time for most of my overtime because I'm usually the difference between failure and not. My office knows this and knows I'm happy to do a few hours extra most of the time, so when they ring me they know what price has to be paid. I usually end up with tracked/specials/LATs/broken down vans and lately Covid kits and loops that just can't be shifted by people who already deliver near them.

The other option to them is hire agency, which would be very costly, or more part timers, which means some days they might not have enough work, what then? Failure means potential fines. It's cheaper for RM just to make these deals isn't it? And I get a nice little reward from it. I call it my bonus lol.

Obviously, I believe overtime should be time and a half by default, but realistically is that going to happen? I don't think so, so I get to make the rules because it's my free time, they can agree or disagree at the end of the day. If the clocking in and out system was linked to pay, I imagine people in the same boat as me might not be so willing to help out as much. The incentive just wouldn't be good enough.

I get it's not necessarily fair for everyone, but it's up to each person what overtime they do and what they charge, it's none of my business. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about ghost O/T. Everyone that's moaned at me about it are those people that refuse to go a minute over. That's your choice! I won't moan at you for working to time. Let people go about their own business. Too many unfortunately concerned with what others do.

Absolutely bang on!!!!

[Cucumber]

I imagine that RM are more than than happy to play the long game here with this new system. They won't initially rock the boat too much with savings, in an attempt to get the revisions through, but after that happens and if they are still seeing scope where people are going home hours before finishing time (regardless of the reasons - coming in early/working breaks etc) they will have all the data they need and the union will be powerless to stop the hours being pulled from the office. This system will save them an absolute fortune on overtime.

[Godisfirst01]

That "loophole" works in both Royal Mail's and our favour though, so why would they put a stop to it? It wouldn't make sense to disadvantage themselves. I charge time and a half or double time for most of my overtime because I'm usually the difference between failure and not. My office knows this and knows I'm happy to do a few hours extra most of the time, so when they ring me they know what price has to be paid. I usually end up with tracked/specials/LATs/broken down vans and lately Covid kits and loops that just can't be shifted by people who already deliver near them.

The other option to them is hire agency, which would be very costly, or more part timers, which means some days they might not have enough work, what then? Failure means potential fines. It's cheaper for RM just to make these deals isn't it? And I get a nice little reward from it. I call it my bonus lol.

Obviously, I believe overtime should be time and a half by default, but realistically is that going to happen? I don't think so, so I get to make the rules because it's my free time, they can agree or disagree at the end of the day. If the clocking in and out system was linked to pay, I imagine people in the same boat as me might not be so willing to help out as much. The incentive just wouldn't be good enough.

I get it's not necessarily fair for everyone, but it's up to each person what overtime they do and what they charge, it's none of my business. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about ghost O/T. Everyone that's moaned at me about it are those people that refuse to go a minute over. That's your choice! I won't moan at you for working to time. Let people go about their own business. Too many unfortunately concerned with what others do.

Absolutely bang on!!!!

You are just the TRUTH! nothing will change anyway so get it before for some reasons will vanish!

[blacov]

That "loophole" works in both Royal Mail's and our favour though, so why would they put a stop to it? It wouldn't make sense to disadvantage themselves. I charge time and a half or double time for most of my overtime because I'm usually the difference between failure and not. My office knows this and knows I'm happy to do a few hours extra most of the time, so when they ring me they know what price has to be paid. I usually end up with tracked/specials/LATs/broken down vans and lately Covid kits and loops that just can't be shifted by people who already deliver near them.

The other option to them is hire agency, which would be very costly, or more part timers, which means some days they might not have enough work, what then? Failure means potential fines. It's cheaper for RM just to make these deals isn't it? And I get a nice little reward from it. I call it my bonus lol.

Obviously, I believe overtime should be time and a half by default, but realistically is that going to happen? I don't think so, so I get to make the rules because it's my free time, they can agree or disagree at the end of the day. If the clocking in and out system was linked to pay, I imagine people in the same boat as me might not be so willing to help out as much. The incentive just wouldn't be good enough.

I get it's not necessarily fair for everyone, but it's up to each person what overtime they do and what they charge, it's none of my business. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about ghost O/T. Everyone that's moaned at me about it are those people that refuse to go a minute over. That's your choice! I won't moan at you for working to time. Let people go about their own business. Too many unfortunately concerned with what others do.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Royal Mail needs these deals and "dealers". If believe given the fact that OT above 38h is less than our hourly rate there is a need for an incentive. This is why people charge a bit extra. 1 and a half sounds about what I do. It is often a matter of failure or not for RM so they will be willing to pay as long as it clears the office. Most offices have an army of people doing "dirty" jobs on a regular basis.

[wazer]

They should get rid of paper system. When I tell mates we sign in on paper they don't believe me. Before I came to RM (8yr) nearly eveyjob I've had since the 90s was clocking, scanning in.. When we had covid outbreak 3weeks ago, in total 20 staff went home in the morning, managers could not tell who had gone home as the sheets weren't signed on staff leaving. My clocking in time on sheet say 6.10,.I start at 7:10i pointed this out yrs ago got told don't worry it just copyed eveykweek