Use own car to deliver mail or deliver in the dark?

[richietns]

I must admit that I am disappointed in the union CWU. Yet again because it is only part time leave reserves who are affected and not the full time staff..... they don't seem to give a s**t. There was talk that the union were going to ensure that those working in the dark would only do packets and not mail blah blah blah but it seems it was just rumours and once again the union aren't doing jack s**t.

The union took private cars off delivery yet your using yours.

Was more pissed off about the union not caring that it is only part time leave reserves that have afternoon starts and are doing our deliveries in the dark....... this then means that it is only part time leave reserves that end up using our own cars to avoid working in the dark. The full timers don't have to make this choice.

Yet again the union are letting down us part time leave reserves.

Is it not a local issue rather than national tell your dom youve done your fair share of lates get your rep area rep involved ime sure you could persue the ,picking on you angle.

[CHUCKYPIG]

Union rep?

There lies the problem. The union is as corrupt as the managers. The union reps won’t argue for themselves to go out delivering in the dark will they?

The union reps I suspect at most delivery offices (is at time) are full timers who stick up for the working conditions of full timers. Our union rep and the area rep always hold all their meetings before the part timers start time. And now they have kept quiet about only part time reserves starting near when it gets dark.

The union also know full well that several of us are using our own cars to avoid late starts. Again they do nothing because it is not in their interests to rock the boat.

Yes I could raise some bullying/harassment thing. But we all have to pick our battles wisely. And I’m not willing to tackle a corrupt system and end up the loser, always be put on the worst walks, worst days off etc because I took on the vested interests. Play the game, use our cars to see out the winter and stay in a job.

Its cool, life’s a risk isn’t it. Us part timers just accept that the union doesn’t have our back. Every system is corrupt, life isn’t fair.

So as I first stated, it’s a choice of delivering in the dark or using our own cars

[piranha]

Mmm read everything and I am still going to use my own car. As someone said I'll do what's best for me. Interesting to get people's opinions on here still though. And if anyone else from other DOs are in the same boat.

No we do not have a start time in our contract which is why management are making all the new starters start work in the afternoon and not the old timers who have better contracts.

So it is either work in the dark or use my own car and I prefer to use my own car. I will only be doing mail in my own car, driving to 5 stop points and looping from there. Then go back and get a van to do the packets. So its a sort of compromise. For me it beats working in the dark.

You cannot carry mail in your private vehicle. Private car use is only authorised as a means to following your van share partner out to delivery and then using the van as a mobile drop box.

You will be both breaking Royal Mail security protocols and more than likely the law as you will not be properly insured.

I hope nothing happens, but I would urge you to have a rethink.

In that case how come (at least) 3 of us in our delivery office are using our own cars to deliver mail every day with the permission of both the DOM and duty supervisor?

Would both managers agree to several people in our office breaking the rules like this?

Seems unlikely.

Look it up for yourself, yes managers would give you verbal permission to do anything if it gets a walk cleared and makes their life easier. Ask them for permission to take mail in your car in writing.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Use your own car or deliver in the dark as per OP?

Errrrr.. neither!

And none of us have to.

Start time and a finish time, whatever you can do in those hours.

If you accept being pressured/bullied into doing it once, this is RM and that will become the norm.

Dont do it!

[CHUCKYPIG]

And none of us have to.

Start time and a finish time, whatever you can do in those hours.

Banging my head against a brick wall man . So many posters don't seem to understand that many of us leave reserves don't have the luxury of official start and finish times that you full timers have.

Brick wall man . I can only say it one more time. We don't have a choice to start in the morning with a van. If we did don't you think we would take it?!!!!

[CHUCKYPIG]

Maybe your delivery offices are not the same?

There are now 5 people in our delivery office using their cars to deliver mail to avoid starting in the afternoon and delivering mail in the dark winter evenings. Others are using trolleys to walk mail further than is normal. There is no van sharing in our DO.

Any other delivery offices where people are having to make the choice of using their own car or delivering mail in the dark?

Or is our delivery office the only one?

[Postie45]

Any other delivery offices where people are having to make the choice of using their own car or delivering mail in the dark?

Or is our delivery office the only one?

has delivering mail "in the dark" been risk assessed ? Not only the increased dangers of trips and falls, theres an obvious increase in the amount of time it`ll take to deliver. I honestly wouldnt mind delivering in the dark if those things were accounted for. Im sure a delivery could take close to double the amount of time.

[Cluaran]

And none of us have to.

Start time and a finish time, whatever you can do in those hours.

Banging my head against a brick wall man . So many posters don't seem to understand that many of us leave reserves don't have the luxury of official start and finish times that you full timers have.

Brick wall man . I can only say it one more time. We don't have a choice to start in the morning with a van. If we did don't you think we would take it?!!!!

Hour many hours are you contracted to work a day? Work your hours, when you have STOP! It is not rocket science!!

[Sugar]

So as I first stated, it’s a choice of delivering in the dark or using our own cars

When many of us first started we all delivered in the dark and it wasn't a choice or up for negotiation it was part and parcel of the job and to be honest it wasn't that hard to do the job in the dark with a torch just a slight inconveience as you walked slower.

The choice you have is to use your car illegally without the correct insurance and ferry mail around in it, again illegally, with a hope no one breaks in to it and steals it or the police stop you.

Or

You put all the emphasis on your managers to do the job they are paid to do and to supply you with a van to get out on delivery and do the correct risk assessments if you are going to be walking in the dark. Plus provide you with a torch if required.

It's not your problem to solve, they're paid to do that and if you can't complete your delivery because of a lack of vans or walking in the dark is slowing you down then so be it.

You'll just get paid the exact same money for doing less work each day, a concept far too many OPG's fail to grasp and instead do all the problem solving for their incompetent managers and end up giving themselves more work in the process.

[k979aaa]

Have Business insurance and turn your light's on!

[Iknockedtwice]

Business insurance only covers driving to multiple places of work, it does not cover you if you’re making deliveries, for that you need courier insurance.
You can bet that anyone having their car broken into and Mail/parcels stolen will be hung out to dry by management, unless you drive a van how can you possibly keep everything out of sight?

[HTPostman]

So as I first stated, it’s a choice of delivering in the dark or using our own cars

When many of us first started we all delivered in the dark and it wasn't a choice or up for negotiation it was part and parcel of the job and to be honest it wasn't that hard to do the job in the dark with a torch just a slight inconveience as you walked slower.

Things aren’t the same now though, you really can’t compare - it’s before my time but I’m guessing you used to go out (on a bike?) knowing the day can only get lighter. No D2Ds, no scanning, few recorded items, you sorted your own round so you knew missorts would be minimal. Plus done for what, 10am? 11am?

It’s a bit different heading out at 1.30pm with a round you’ve not prepped, you’ve not tied it up either. Every 10th item is a missort because the guy prepping it focused more on his own round, you’re having to scan something every 5 houses. Specials tracked recordeds. 7 D2Ds for every house only you don’t know the frame so you don’t know if you’re meant to be crossing the road and zigzagging with the D2Ds or going up one side and coming back. You might be doing the round for the first time with no help or guidance.

Fully agree he should not be using his car but we really can’t compare the job of yesteryear to the current job.

It’s a bit like those who say we look scruffy, in their day they wore a shirt and tie on delivery....conveniently forgetting in their day they weren’t doing 30k steps during the hottest part of the day.

[SpacePhoenix]

Things aren’t the same now though, you really can’t compare - it’s before my time but I’m guessing you used to go out (on a bike?) knowing the day can only get lighter. No D2Ds, no scanning, few recorded items, you sorted your own round so you knew missorts would be minimal. Plus done for what, 10am? 11am?

It’s a bit different heading out at 1.30pm with a round you’ve not prepped, you’ve not tied it up either. Every 10th item is a missort because the guy prepping it focused more on his own round, you’re having to scan something every 5 houses. Specials tracked recordeds. 7 D2Ds for every house only you don’t know the frame so you don’t know if you’re meant to be crossing the road and zigzagging with the D2Ds or going up one side and coming back. You might be doing the round for the first time with no help or guidance.

I'd give it 5 years tops before EVERY parcel needs scanning in DOs both ready for delivery and when delivery is attempted. Also at every MC and RDC they pass through

[Sugar]

Things aren’t the same now though, you really can’t compare - it’s before my time but I’m guessing you used to go out (on a bike?) knowing the day can only get lighter. No D2Ds, no scanning, few recorded items, you sorted your own round so you knew missorts would be minimal. Plus done for what, 10am? 11am?

No bike, had to make your own way to start of delivery on a bus with a 16kg first pouch and we did have D2D's with a maximum of 3 per week and at times containing odd sample like packets of jam or Nivea face cream making bundles near impossible to hold.

The way the company is going large swathes of you will be regularly working an afternoon type shift and working in the dark. Might as well prep for it before it becomes a permanent thing.

No scanning, had cards to sign which were a nightmare in the rain. Specials could be a pain especially if they were at the end of your delivery, no van to rush there at the last minute. You literally had to walk there off route at times if you knew you wouldn't complete in time. And they had to be carried in your pouch from the moment you left the office, no leaving in pouch boxes to pick up later.

As for parcels, well if you couldn't deliver them you had to carry them in your pouch for the rest of the delivery till you either got back to the office to hand in or pouch off at a local post office.

Done for 10 or 11? I wish, first 2 rounds I ever did would mean booking over 1-3 hours per day nearly every day. On a 30 hour 6 day a week contract and the rounds were as fuc3ed up back then as they are now with most seniors guys on walks that were far smaller than the P/T'ers and going home an hour or 2 before us.

It’s a bit different heading out at 1.30pm with a round you’ve not prepped, you’ve not tied it up either. Every 10th item is a missort because the guy prepping it focused more on his own round, you’re having to scan something every 5 houses. Specials tracked recordeds. 7 D2Ds for every house only you don’t know the frame so you don’t know if you’re meant to be crossing the road and zigzagging with the D2Ds or going up one side and coming back. You might be doing the round for the first time with no help or guidance.

If your getting so many mis-sorts then I'd be putting in a complaint or bring the lot of them back for the managers to sort out. It is their job. One thing that's gone down the pan with all the changes royal fail have done is the quality and speed of the sorting and prepping of walks. Again that's because managers are getting ever more incompetent as the years roll by. We had 2 hours to do IPS and prep our walks to get out at a decent time to catch bus.

We had loads when I started not on a set duty, nothings changed on that front over the years. 3 days training when you started then you were on your lonesome from then on in, you went out and followed your nose and worked it out for yourself.

As for the D2 volume issue what people get in D2D's now we got in the form of heavier magazines (sky mags) and much more letters especially the mailsort kind. I could be delivering 60-80kg of mail most day's and some even more on the bad duties.

Fully agree he should not be using his car but we really can’t compare the job of yesteryear to the current job.

It’s a bit like those who say we look scruffy, in their day they wore a shirt and tie on delivery....conveniently forgetting in their day they weren’t doing 30k steps during the hottest part of the day.

Yes the uniform is scruffy but it is better quality in the rain. We just had to deal with getting pi$$ wet through and freezing cold.

A vast majority of us were out on strike trying the stop the size of duties increasing and being out in the midday sun because of it's issues. Personally I blame the union, and the clowns that run around, especially the year we had royal fail by the balls in the run up to Christmas and the union pulled the plug for a deal of the century.

Too many cut corners and that's contributed massively to the $hit show that is today's way of working and why lots of duties are 10-20% bigger than they should be if done with the correct delivery methods and taking breaks. OPG's are their own worst enemies

********EDIT********

Forgot to add, there's good and bad things in both decades I worked there, personally I preferred the way we used to work before van share. Van share, for me, was an utter disaster and created more issues than it solved. Plus the managers pre van share where a better breed and more open to suggestions, didn't treat you as if you were beneath them and basically just left you to get on with the job and not try to micro manage you like these days.

[HTPostman]

Things aren’t the same now though, you really can’t compare - it’s before my time but I’m guessing you used to go out (on a bike?) knowing the day can only get lighter. No D2Ds, no scanning, few recorded items, you sorted your own round so you knew missorts would be minimal. Plus done for what, 10am? 11am?

No bike, had to make your own way to start of delivery on a bus with a 16kg first pouch and we did have D2D's with a maximum of 3 per week and at times containing odd sample like packets of jam or Nivea face cream making bundles near impossible to hold.

The way the company is going large swathes of you will be regularly working an afternoon type shift and working in the dark. Might as well prep for it before it becomes a permanent thing.

No scanning, had cards to sign which were a nightmare in the rain. Specials could be a pain especially if they were at the end of your delivery, no van to rush there at the last minute. You literally had to walk there off route at times if you knew you wouldn't complete in time. And they had to be carried in your pouch from the moment you left the office, no leaving in pouch boxes to pick up later.

As for parcels, well if you couldn't deliver them you had to carry them in your pouch for the rest of the delivery till you either got back to the office to hand in or pouch off at a local post office.

Done for 10 or 11? I wish, first 2 rounds I ever did would mean booking over 1-3 hours per day nearly every day. On a 30 hour 6 day a week contract and the rounds were as fuc3ed up back then as they are now with most seniors guys on walks that were far smaller than the P/T'ers and going home an hour or 2 before us.

It’s a bit different heading out at 1.30pm with a round you’ve not prepped, you’ve not tied it up either. Every 10th item is a missort because the guy prepping it focused more on his own round, you’re having to scan something every 5 houses. Specials tracked recordeds. 7 D2Ds for every house only you don’t know the frame so you don’t know if you’re meant to be crossing the road and zigzagging with the D2Ds or going up one side and coming back. You might be doing the round for the first time with no help or guidance.

If your getting so many mis-sorts then I'd be putting in a complaint or bring the lot of them back for the managers to sort out. It is their job. One thing that's gone down the pan with all the changes royal fail have done is the quality and speed of the sorting and prepping of walks. Again that's because managers are getting ever more incompetent as the years roll by. We had 2 hours to do IPS and prep our walks to get out at a decent time to catch bus.

We had loads when I started not on a set duty, nothings changed on that front over the years. 3 days training when you started then you were on your lonesome from then on in, you went out and followed your nose and worked it out for yourself.

As for the D2 volume issue what people get in D2D's now we got in the form of heavier magazines (sky mags) and much more letters especially the mailsort kind. I could be delivering 60-80kg of mail most day's and some even more on the bad duties.

Fully agree he should not be using his car but we really can’t compare the job of yesteryear to the current job.

It’s a bit like those who say we look scruffy, in their day they wore a shirt and tie on delivery....conveniently forgetting in their day they weren’t doing 30k steps during the hottest part of the day.

Yes the uniform is scruffy but it is better quality in the rain. We just had to deal with getting pi$$ wet through and freezing cold.

A vast majority of us were out on strike trying the stop the size of duties increasing and being out in the midday sun because of it's issues. Personally I blame the union, and the clowns that run around, especially the year we had royal fail by the balls in the run up to Christmas and the union pulled the plug for a deal of the century.

Too many cut corners and that's contributed massively to the $hit show that is today's way of working and why lots of duties are 10-20% bigger than they should be if done with the correct delivery methods and taking breaks. OPG's are their own worst enemies

********EDIT********

Forgot to add, there's good and bad things in both decades I worked there, personally I preferred the way we used to work before van share. Van share, for me, was an utter disaster and created more issues than it solved. Plus the managers pre van share where a better breed and more open to suggestions, didn't treat you as if you were beneath them and basically just left you to get on with the job and not try to micro manage you like these days.

Then my apologies and thank you for the reasoned response.

Once again it shows how different RM is office to office. I did the job 10 years ago, we had van drivers dropping our bags off and they did all the specials too. On average you’d have maybe 20 parcels for a round and 5 recordeds. Sky magazines were a pain but rounds were smaller where I was back then.

Most rounds you’d be done for 1pm. The smallest round (which you could get in 2 bags or 1 big bag) was an 11.30 finish or 11am finish on a good day. The latest I ever finished was 3.30pm!

Fully agree on your last point. I can’t believe so many want to return to van sharing post Covid. I hate van sharing. The only benefits to me are if you’re doing a round for the first time and the other guy knows it so he can guide you round.

Working on my own I:

Load the van how I want
Do the round how I want
Go at my pace
Take my break when I want
Have less bags in the van
If I want to do OT I’m not depending on a van partner to say yes.