Compulsory Wearing of Facemasks Indoors

[PostmanBitesDog]

The Hidden Disabilities face-covering exempt card indicates that the wearer has a hidden disability and has a reasonable excuse for not wearing a face covering.

The problem, david1456uk, is that those exempt from wearing a face mask might still catch the virus and spread it to others. The risk is high for exempt individuals. It's better that they don't work in proximity with those that can wear masks.

[charlatans]

I've been wearing a mask in the m.c since March. Many scuffles with people not social distancing and not giving a fk. If you endanger me and my family and friends you are scum. Co workers think im mad. My other half (piss poor payed nhs nurse who has been doing various covid testing and other treatments during this) agrees with my stance. She had to get a degree to enable her to earn s**t money to look after us. Wear a mask even if your useless at everything else i think you could manage it. PUT YOUR BIG BOY PANTS ON AND YOUR MASK.

[PostmanBitesDog]

Bras.jpg

[wandle]

Why are you cherry picking bits of info?

'Face masks protect the wearer'. No, they ALSO protect the wearer. Many staff have been wearing masks for weeks and months now, you know, it's kinda the right and decent thing to do if you are in the high % that have no medical reason not to. And as for stating if they were happy to be mask free before last Sunday - in case you hadn't noticed, there were 33,000 positive cases yesterday, which is just the tip of the iceberg, plus much of the country is shut down. If that's not an extra push, then nothing will be.
Genuine question though - do you think that people complaining about the non/improper wearing of safety equipment should just shut up and go way?
Another question - do you not think it was a bit strange that RM only decreed that face mask were to be worn by people who were customer facing in the collections office? Why didn't they follow the lead of other companies and have this mandatory mask policy earlier?

I’m not cherry-picking.
That statement from CDC is the first I’ve seen that says masks also protect the wearer. It is a potentially huge shift in medical advice, because it means those at risk can wear one voluntarily, but more significantly, would mean those who do not wear one are not putting the wearers at risk.
I don’t think people should shut up, but they maybe should be asking why has it taken 8 MONTHS for Royal Mail to reach this decision? I suspect it’s to cover themselves, legally speaking, to say ‘we did everything we could to protect our people’, despite months and months of burying their heads in the sand

That makes no sense whatsoever.

The best protection that you, I and everyone else has in the workplace is for EVERYONE to wear a face covering and observe social distancing. Are you seriously suggesting that if I wear a mask and someone 2m away from me doesn't wear one, it's ok, as my mask will protect ME?
Masks are most effective at stopping someone breathing OUT particles into the air, it's only recently been reported in studies that wearing one can also reduce the particles you breath in, but not by a factor that allows for others to NOT wear them in at all.
A mask is a safety device with one big flaw - other people not wearing them.

If you've not already seen this, take a look. The part at the bottom about schools is probably the most relatable part to RM, or any factory setting with many people there.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... e-air.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is not me that is saying masks protect the wearer. I quoted the BBC report of the CDC claiming that they do.

I agree that a mask has one big safety flaw, but the flaw is with the poor practices people unconsciously adopt when wearing them.
Is every mask-wearer, in your experience,

1. wearing the mask over nose and mouth, at all times?
2. washing their hands meticulously before removing the mask, and again before re-applying it?
3. being scrupulous in not touching the surface of the mask, ever?
4. not pulling it down below the nose to assist with breathing / parking it underneath the chin in order to be better understood when chatting to colleagues?

Back in March, the advice of the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, was that masks were NOT a good idea outside of clinical settings, for similar reasons.

https://youtu.be/p1-Prh2N7lc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At some point, that advice was changed, in order to support the narrative that masks on public transport and in shops ‘couldn’t do any harm’. ALL of the reasons she gave for them not being wise still held true, but it became a political issue. Government were desperate to be seen taking some action; they needed to be seen doing something. Masks were something; however little evidence there was.

Someone in this thread said two people who van-share both got coronavirus, even though both wear masks. Social distancing is way more important than masks, because unless those two people both caught it outside work, then one passed it to the other DESPITE the use of masks

[Cucumber]

Why are you cherry picking bits of info?

'Face masks protect the wearer'. No, they ALSO protect the wearer. Many staff have been wearing masks for weeks and months now, you know, it's kinda the right and decent thing to do if you are in the high % that have no medical reason not to. And as for stating if they were happy to be mask free before last Sunday - in case you hadn't noticed, there were 33,000 positive cases yesterday, which is just the tip of the iceberg, plus much of the country is shut down. If that's not an extra push, then nothing will be.
Genuine question though - do you think that people complaining about the non/improper wearing of safety equipment should just shut up and go way?
Another question - do you not think it was a bit strange that RM only decreed that face mask were to be worn by people who were customer facing in the collections office? Why didn't they follow the lead of other companies and have this mandatory mask policy earlier?

I’m not cherry-picking.
That statement from CDC is the first I’ve seen that says masks also protect the wearer. It is a potentially huge shift in medical advice, because it means those at risk can wear one voluntarily, but more significantly, would mean those who do not wear one are not putting the wearers at risk.
I don’t think people should shut up, but they maybe should be asking why has it taken 8 MONTHS for Royal Mail to reach this decision? I suspect it’s to cover themselves, legally speaking, to say ‘we did everything we could to protect our people’, despite months and months of burying their heads in the sand

That makes no sense whatsoever.

The best protection that you, I and everyone else has in the workplace is for EVERYONE to wear a face covering and observe social distancing. Are you seriously suggesting that if I wear a mask and someone 2m away from me doesn't wear one, it's ok, as my mask will protect ME?
Masks are most effective at stopping someone breathing OUT particles into the air, it's only recently been reported in studies that wearing one can also reduce the particles you breath in, but not by a factor that allows for others to NOT wear them in at all.
A mask is a safety device with one big flaw - other people not wearing them.

If you've not already seen this, take a look. The part at the bottom about schools is probably the most relatable part to RM, or any factory setting with many people there.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... e-air.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is not me that is saying masks protect the wearer. I quoted the BBC report of the CDC claiming that they do.

I agree that a mask has one big safety flaw, but the flaw is with the poor practices people unconsciously adopt when wearing them.
Is every mask-wearer, in your experience,

1. wearing the mask over nose and mouth, at all times?
2. washing their hands meticulously before removing the mask, and again before re-applying it?
3. being scrupulous in not touching the surface of the mask, ever?
4. not pulling it down below the nose to assist with breathing / parking it underneath the chin in order to be better understood when chatting to colleagues?

Back in March, the advice of the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, was that masks were NOT a good idea outside of clinical settings, for similar reasons.

https://youtu.be/p1-Prh2N7lc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At some point, that advice was changed, in order to support the narrative that masks on public transport and in shops ‘couldn’t do any harm’. ALL of the reasons she gave for them not being wise still held true, but it became a political issue. Government were desperate to be seen taking some action; they needed to be seen doing something. Masks were something; however little evidence there was.

Someone in this thread said two people who van-share both got coronavirus, even though both wear masks. Social distancing is way more important than masks, because unless those two people both caught it outside work, then one passed it to the other DESPITE the use of masks

I'll reply in fuller detail later, but I'd just like to get an answer on one specific point, in your view, if ok, as I think it's been missed.

Given that it's reported that a face mask, worn properly, also protects the wearer from inhaling viral particles, do you think that it then sufficiently makes it safer for other people NOT to wear them (if medical reasons allow).

[Woody Guthrie]

do you think that it then sufficiently makes it safer for other people NOT to wear them

No that's really bad science.
Since we're not at any point dealing with zero risk we would need to be able to quantify the level of risk to the wearer and the non wearer and then make an arbitrary decision on what level of risk was acceptable on an individual basis.

"Safer" is not a quantifiable measure, neither is "sufficiently".

[wandle]

[
Given that it's reported that a face mask, worn properly, also protects the wearer from inhaling viral particles, do you think that it then sufficiently makes it safer for other people NOT to wear them (if medical reasons allow).

I am not medically qualified to give an authoritative answer to your specific question, but someone with a medical condition who cannot wear a mask (as opposed to refuses to wear one without just cause) must not be banned from all public life, forever, and placed under virtual house arrest. As long as they maintain social distancing, practice good hygiene (which many of even our colleagues do not, and never did before covid, either), then they have the same human rights as anyone else.
I would ask you a specific question. When you assume that a person not wearing a mask is just being awkward and has no medical reason, would you make the same assumptions about a wheelchair user? Would you contemplate demanding they prove their entitlement to be in that chair? Or would you assume they are faking it, just to get that coveted parking space?

[ConeHater]

Generations of folk have had the decency to attempt to cover their mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing, whether they have the common cold, hay fever or just a temporary irritation. Remember “coughs and sneezes spread diseases” ! Why this quarrel about selfish people who put their own comfort over the lives of their colleagues, and potentially highly vulnerable people that they may reside with ?
It’s not just about breathing in the virus particles either, expelled particles can remain active on surfaces for many hours, and so infect people when they touch those areas and then touch their mouth, eyes or nose. Mask wearing would prevent the virus landing on other surfaces, and don’t forget the regular hand washing.
What are the odds that those not wearing masks are also the ones that rarely wash their hands ?

[Bingsmith]

One of our managers on lates is selling visors at £1.50 a pop I think it’s a disgrace she’s allowed to make a profit in works time to

[2yearpostie]

One of our managers on lates is selling visors at £1.50 a pop I think it’s a disgrace she’s allowed to make a profit in works time to

Totally against RM rules they need to have a supply of (free) visors and masks. Report her

[Bingsmith]

Why doesn't RM offer a visor to anyone not wearing a mask?

They do.

Our visors didn’t turn up but our manager is seller them at £1.50 each, anyone else having to buy visors from their manager?

[Bingsmith]

One of our managers on lates is selling visors at £1.50 a pop I think it’s a disgrace she’s allowed to make a profit in works time to

Totally against RM rules they need to have a supply of (free) visors and masks. Report her

To whom though? Everyone is aware it’s going on, even the union

[2yearpostie]

One of our managers on lates is selling visors at £1.50 a pop I think it’s a disgrace she’s allowed to make a profit in works time to

Totally against RM rules they need to have a supply of (free) visors and masks. Report her

To whom though? Everyone is aware it’s going on, even the union

Area manager if possible, media leak if not

[Bingsmith]

One of our managers on lates is selling visors at £1.50 a pop I think it’s a disgrace she’s allowed to make a profit in works time to

Totally against RM rules they need to have a supply of (free) visors and masks. Report her

To whom though? Everyone is aware it’s going on, even the union

Area manager if possible, media leak if not

So much bullying goes on at this large Essex branch, specially by the managers. I’d be scared of being known as a grass, my life would be hell. I’ll have to have a think about it lol

[cobrakai]

Royal Mail is consistent around the country for bullying, it’s about the only thing the managers are good at! Anybody that pays £1.50 for a visor off one of the resident screws wants their head read.